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11/08/22 05:10 PM #11824    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

I posted this article back in March regarding priestly celibacy. While it may not offer the perfect right answer to the question of married priests, it does provide some additional food for thought.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource/56264/the-case-for-priestly-celibacy  

 


11/08/22 06:35 PM #11825    

 

David Mitchell

I disagree with about 90% of those arguments - especialy the outrgeous point that the sons of English Anglican priest are "unsatisfactory". HUH!

"I have often thought that the Church of Rome does wisely in not allowing her priests to marry. Certainly it is a matter of common observation in England that the sons of clergymen are frequently unsatisfactory. The explanation is very simple.... The clergyman is expected to be a kind of human Sunday. He is paid for this business of leading a stricter life than other people. It is his raison d'etre. If his parishioners feel that he does this, they approve of him, for they look upon him as their own contribution towards what they deem a holy life.... But his home is his castle as much as that of any other Englishman, and with him, as with others, unnatural tension in public is followed by exhaustion when tension is no longer necessary. His children are the most defenseless things he can reach, and it is on them that nine cases out of ten that he will relieve his mind."

"frequently unsatisfactory" - What a ridiculous accusation!  

And later (also underlined) this "unnatural tension". What an absurd phrase.  Please tell me what human life is without tension?  I am fully aware that thre are divorced priests, and there will continue to be. Life happens. And pedophiles, and alcoholics, and drug addicts, and suicides, and depression, and vicious men who beat children physically as we so often witnessed growing up at OLP.  

 

* Over the past 20 years I have enjoyed the first hand experience of 8 married Anglican priests and one Anglican Bishop, each one of whom are married with children, and each one a good friend. Every single one has been a remarkable example of very spiritual men who actively reach out to people in a more practical and deeply spiritual way than any celibate clergyman iI have known. Perhaps it is just dumb luck, or the changing times, or maybe the fact tha they are all graduates of the very spiritual Trinity Episcopal Seminary in Pittsburgh - a seminary that seems to have taken a much more spiritual (and practical) bent in recent generations.

I think the arguement for offering men the choice before ordination still holds strong.  


11/08/22 11:28 PM #11826    

 

David Mitchell

On a lighter note:

Here is a story about one of those 8 young Anglican priests who I still call a good friend. His name is Fr. Chris Royer. He grew up in Boulder, Colorado (making him - and his two Korean daughters - another fellow Bronco fan). He was my assistant pastor for a few years before moving on, and we became close friends. He served as a lay missionary in Turkey for about 14 years, before coming home and becoming an Anglican priest. While there, he married a Korean girl who served on his missionary team and they had two baby girls. He moved back to the states where he wanted to enter the "Roman" seminary, but they would not let him in - being married. So he attended Trinity Episcopal Seminary in Pittsburgh before coming to our church (old historic "Church of the Cross") in Bluffton. Among other things, he instituted a men's "basketball ministry" with about 20+ of us playing ball in our school gym once a week and inviting men of other faiths (and colors) to join us. Basically, we played full court and hard, and prayed together at the outset and a break in the middle. The group was mostly young 30 somethings with a handful of forty somethings and two old farts. One was a tired, slow old Army helicopter pilot who insisted he could drag himslf up and down the court with the "kids". 

Chris had not actually been ordained when he arrived, but was ordained by our Bishop in a ceremony in our church some time after. At the ceremony, his youngest daughter (Stephanie - about 12) opened the proceedings playing her violin (in an alter boys black and white cassock) at center stage on the first step of the altar. She finished and bowed politely and walked off.

Then her older (and equally gogeous) sister, Daniella (about 14) began playing a beautiful piece on the piano over to one side of the altar - only partialy visible in that far corner of the altar. When she finished, she walked to the front center of the altar, bowed, and walked off.

But she had on a beautiful knee-length dress which revealed a full body cast on one of her legs. Hmm, I thought. She didn't have that cast on at church services that morning. So in the reception following the ceremony I had to ask Chris about the cast. He explained that he and Daniella had been wrestling on the stairway at home after church and they rolled down the stairway and he landed on her and broke her leg. 

As we both laughed, I told him that was one story no Catholic priest could ever tell.

Then I asked him this question, "Chris, now that you are officialy a priest, does that mean that I can no longer elbow you in the neck when you go up for a layup?

 

(The two best young female golfers in Bluffton - one of the guys in the basketball group is a local golf pro and taught the two girls to be terrific golfers - of course.   Daniella - broken leg - in glasses - now a lawyer)


11/09/22 11:47 AM #11827    

 

Janie Albright (Blank)

MM, good article but I'm not convinced. Is there a similar article on why we can't have women priests? I find the financial aspect interesting. I don't know the answer but how do Protestant congregations do this? We certainly can look at their model. Obviously they must be willing to be "poor" by material standards. But you see families going all over the world as missionaries. There is a history of married and even women in our early church. Again, other religions have figured it out so we can too. I don't think our church if it is to thrive has any real options. 

Dave has some real insight since he is a member of an Episcopal congregation. 


11/10/22 10:43 AM #11828    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

There is a great deal about Catholic teaching which comes not only from Scripture, but also from Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church, that is often difficult to accept in our present day. 

https://dwightlongenecker.com/why-women-cant-be-catholic-priests/


11/10/22 12:10 PM #11829    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Hey, Floridians,

Any damage from Nicole?

Jim 


11/10/22 01:54 PM #11830    

 

Michael McLeod

thanks for asking Jim.

Short answer: nothing like the last one.

A squall by comparison

A few homes lost along the shoreline but no other heavy damage that I've seen in the news so far. Only fatalities a couple electrocuted when a line came down on their car, poor souls.

My house buffeted all night long and I lost a flower pot or two but that's it. 

Just think of the worst thunderstorm you ever had in columbus only it lasts for twelve hours.

Down here that's nothing.


11/11/22 08:07 AM #11831    

 

Thomas McKeon

Very windy and lotsa rain otherwise we needed the rain.


11/11/22 11:43 AM #11832    

 

Bill Reid

Maybe some non political news for a change? This article was published in The Criterion, the Catholic newspaper of the Archdiocese of Indianapolis:

https://www.archindy.org/CRITERION/local/2022/11-11/deacon.html

I am humbled, and also thankful to God for my ability to continue in ministry.

 


11/11/22 11:49 AM #11833    

 

Michael McLeod

Here you go Bill.

I swore off politics here a while back though it still crops up now and then to interrupt a kinda sorta simmering detente.

Thanks for sharing insights from your particular path.

I was in the middle of writing this when I logged on and saw your post. Fortunately, though it exists in an extended blue community surrounded by a red state, and though some key figures in the national political scene happen to live within an hour or two's drive from my doorstep, my Orlando area backyard is apolitical, as is this post. And that's what I wanted to talk about today. My back yard.

I'm thinking those of you up north are well into crappy winter weather which is why I better refrain from sending gloatingly pretty pics. It's bad enough for me to post the following description but I can't help myself. 

Suffice to say a day or so after a big wind blows through the skies are clear and the air is fabulous, the temps are in the mid seventies and I hear the sound of a lawn mower across the street as everybody gets back to normal.

One thing I will say is how, when I moved down here, I had to entirely reeducate myself about how to have a garden. Fuggedabout forsythia and mums and irises and peonies and lillies though I do see roses now and then. Otherwise different cast of characters down here. It's like moving into a new neighborhood with fabulous people in it but you have to figure out who's who and find a way to fit in. Still learning. 

It's gorgeous out back right now with bougainvilla (vine with kaliedescopic saturated-color blooms complete with murderous body-guard assassin type thorns as escorts just itching to catch you with your guard down. No matter how careful I am my forearms look like a cat attacked me after I've trimmed the damn thing). Also around the pool are various potted flowers including one huge exotic bloomer, blooms damn near the size of your head. They stink like hell and draws flies but are just gorgeous as all get out. I enjoy it from a distance. Another fascinating plant is the vine that grows dragon fruit. I didn't even know quite what it was when I saw it climbing up a neighbor's tree and asked for a cutting. It generates exquisite and exotic flowers as well, better yet, they bloom at night, which makes for romantic evenings with my squeeze, the fabulous Miss Denise, the Montessori teacher and constant flame I really do not deserve. Anyway I now have a full fledged 20 foot-tall dragon fruit vine that has wrapped itself around a palm tree by my pool, and I had to figure out how to gather the pollen on a little brush early in the mornings after nighttime blooms and move from one bloom to another dusting pistil and stamen in hopes that the little clouds - you can hardly see the pollen it's so fine -- will set the mood and do their work and I'll wind up with dragon fruit babies. Finally figured it out though the science of it still escapes me and so we enjoy dragon fruit from mid summer to now. There are about a dozen ready to collect today.

PS in the time it took me to write this, the sunshine went away and it started to rain, but not before I managed to pick a few dragon fruit for dessert tonite.

 


11/11/22 12:29 PM #11834    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Bill, â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹

Nice article but, more than that, truly great work you are doing for God, Church and the people. 

Jim 


11/11/22 04:10 PM #11835    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mother Teresa once said, "I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone to create many ripples"  Thank you, Bill for casting those many ripples.


11/11/22 04:20 PM #11836    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

“Honor to the soldier and sailor everywhere, who bravely bears his country’s cause. Honor, also, to the citizen who cares for his brother in the field and serves, as he best can, the same cause.” —Abraham Lincoln


11/12/22 11:11 AM #11837    

 

Michael McLeod

eyes right gents. grateful for most of the experiences and all the benefits it brought us in the end.


11/12/22 12:47 PM #11838    

 

Janie Albright (Blank)

Bill, what a wonderful article! So happy you were able to realize this dream and make a difference. I wanted to mention that numerous people have commented to me about the memorial "service" we held at the reunion for classmates we've lost.  They wanted to share how moved they were by your idea to mention each name and spend a few moments recalling a memory of that person. Thank you again. I'm sure we will make this a regular feature. 


11/12/22 03:08 PM #11839    

 

David Mitchell

Bill,

I too was moved by your (and Steve's) memorial prayer for our classmates.

And reading your story a few posts back was quite moving for me personally.  I am also one of the lukiest guys on the planet. I think this song speaks to your story (and mine). I heard it for the first time on my way up to my first Marked Men For Christ retreat in No. Carolina, about 6 years ago. Then after a life changing weekend at the retreat, I climbed into my car for the 6 hour drive back and must have heard it played about 4 or 5 times (on "HIS Radio"). I couldn't beleive how fitting it was for my own life, and have loved the song ever since. I hope you enjoy it.

(Note: Danny Gokey suffered great loss in his life - his first wife died early in his marriage)

 




11/12/22 03:33 PM #11840    

Joseph Gentilini

Deacon Bill, the article about you and your story was inspirational.  I am so glad that  your found your vocation and that God continues to call you to do his work.  I am honored to be not only your classmate, but your good friend.  Peace, Joe 


11/12/22 04:22 PM #11841    

 

Sheila McCarthy (Gardner)

Deacon Bill ... what a wonderful article. Thank you for the special ways in which you continue to serve... 


11/13/22 12:08 PM #11842    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

For anyone who may be interested......I have posted a link to an interview with a millenial journalist who has just published a well-researched two-volume book that exposes the dark truth of Jeffrey Epstein's criminal operations and his connections to entire networks of power and influence which infiltrate the highest ranks of every sector of American life. I welcome any thoughts regarding her expose over on the User Forum. 

 


11/13/22 02:26 PM #11843    

 

John Maxwell

Deacon Bill,
I am moved to say how inspirational your story is to me. I admire your inner courage, and calm fearlessness. You are blessed in so many ways. Thanks for sharing your experience.

11/13/22 03:33 PM #11844    

 

Mark Schweickart

Changing the subject here, if you don't mind – from the other-worldly spiritual to the more pedestrian earthly magical. If you have seen the Penn & Teller's "Fool Us" show occasionally, you'll know that they have magicians attempt to fool them, and if they do, they win the opportunity to perform with P&T at their long-running live show in a Vegas. Most magicians, who generally fool me completely, rarely fool these two elder-statesmen of the magical arts. Recently they had a magician from Spain on who exuberantly did card tricks like none I had ever seen before (and I watch a fair amont of magic). Note especially, when he is finished, the reaction of Teller, who generally seems impossible to fool.




11/13/22 10:10 PM #11845    

 

David Mitchell

"Looking Away"

I just saw the new film "Till", about the murder of 14 year-old Emmett Till in the small town of Money, Mississippi in 1955. We probably all recall some of the story back then, but it has been a long time since I had read back into the details of the murder, the mock trial, and the (later) confession of the two (never-indicted) men who killed him. Only recently had it come back into the news, and some of the details were especially abhorent. The photos of his almost unrecognizable face brought back the degree of the brutality that I had forgotten. But this film concentrates on another aspect of the story - the brave effort on the part of his mother to force the public to view the open casket and see the degree of evil.

I thought the film did a great (if excruciating) job of focusing on three major sins - Racism, Murder, and what may be an even worse sin, which I will call the sin of "looking away".

I wish this film could be required viewing for every single American of mature teenage and above.

  


11/14/22 11:28 AM #11846    

 

Michael McLeod

Really happy to hear you say that, Dave.

I'm a firm believer in the old saying about people who ignore history being doomed to repeat it. That's a little strong - I'd have said we become unwitting accessories to hate if we don't acknowledge what happens when it's allowed to play out. It's remembering to a purpose, acknowledging what can happen if good people aren't paying attention.

One of these days I'll post a story I wrote about a race riot and lynching that happened down here years ago. I spoke to a survivor who was still nervous about it decades later.

 

 


11/14/22 01:57 PM #11847    

 

Monica Haban (Brown)

Bill Reid

Thank you for sharing the article and your faith filled journey with all of us.  You are a treasure to your family, faith, and community.  

You may know/knew one of my many cousins, Dianne Howard McCabe and her husband Frank.  They lived in Zionsville.  Dianne was a labor and delivery nurse at St. Vincent's Hospital, likely during the years some of your children were born, and her husband Frank worked at Eli Lilly.  You can Google Dianne's photo and (sadly) her obituary. 


11/15/22 11:09 AM #11848    

 

Michael McLeod

Dave: Here you go. I think you will like the ending.

My sweetheart teaches at a public montessori school in ocoee, which is about a half hour's drive from orlando.

 

By Michael McLeod of The Sentinel Staff

Orlando Sentinel

Mar 11, 2001 at 12:00 am

Ed Brown is a panelist on Wall Street Week and CEO of his own money-management firm. He has wealth, success, respect. But what he really wants is 40 acres and a mule.

Brown's grandfather was among scores of black residents who fled forever from the west Orange community of Ocoee in November 1920, when a race riot forced the area's black population -- listed as 263 people in that year's census -- to seek safety in neighboring towns.

Some were paid for what they left behind. Most were not. Now Brown is among a handful of descendants ready to broach a hot-button issue: reparations. Someone, they say, needs to pay.

"This is not about revenge. It's about ethics," says Brown, owner of Brown Capital Management in Baltimore. "It's about an unpaid debt, long overdue -- 40 acres and a mule, and all that." Nineteenth-century abolitionists promised the acreage and the animal to each liberated slave. Nothing ever came of the rhetoric. Tracking down what was lost in Ocoee may prove just as elusive.

For the past three years, two independent, volunteer study groups have been studying historical documents and collecting oral histories to uncover what happened during the riot. As a spinoff of the groups' efforts, several descendants of Ocoee riot victims are expressing an interest in the possibility of the Florida Legislature creating a fund to compensate them for the tragedy.

But records are spotty. Historical accounts conflict. There is even a scarcity of family stories about what was lost: Because people involved in the riot were loath to share the ugliness of what happened with their children, the truth skipped a generation among many Ocoee families. Brown is a prime example.

His parents never spoke of the riots. Neither did his grandparents. Not until a year ago, in a chance discussion with Apopka historian Mildred Board, was he told that when his family members fled, they left behind a home and an orange grove of about 100 acres. Brown, who grew up in Apopka, has yet to find records of family ownership.

That's not unusual, especially for farmland in that era. "People were not real careful about change of title in those days," says Emmett Taylor, supervisor of property assessment for Orange County. "Frequently people would just start living on a piece of land and start paying the property taxes and establish ownership that way."

LONE SURVIVOR

The Ocoee riot has but one known, living black survivor: Armstrong Hightower, 93, a thin, bespectacled man who lives in a two-room apartment in Fort Lauderdale. He was 13 on the night of the Election Day riot, when a gun battle between blacks and whites resulted in the deaths of two white men, the lynching of a black citrus farmer and the killing of at least seven other black people. Some of them burned to death in their own homes when a mob descended on a black Ocoee neighborhood called the Northern Quarters, near what is now the intersection of Apopka-Ocoee and Silver Star roads. The mob burned down about 20 structures.

Hightower spent that night high in the limbs of an orange tree, fearful of wildcats and the Ku Klux Klan, hiding with his family in a grove before fleeing to Apopka. He says the family left behind a home and at least two plots of land. Orange County property records show that a 37-acre plot was purchased for $55 in 1909 by his father, Valentine Hightower, who planned to use the tract to produce turpentine. His plot, near what is now Wurst and Clarcona-Ocoee roads, became a residential subdivision in the mid-1980s. About 50 homes now occupy land once thick with pine trees.

Hightower thinks his father was paid $25 for one of the pieces of land he owned, perhaps the turpentine grove. But he says no amount of money can pay for the lakes he fished as a boy; the family garden where he helped his father grow tomatoes; the one-room, makeshift schoolhouse -- actually a converted Baptist church in the Northern Quarters -- where he learned to read. "I lost my childhood," he says. "What you think, they oughtn't to pay me for that?"

After the 1920 riot, a committee of white citizens was set up to help blacks sell the land they left behind. But there are few details about how many of the scattered black citizens were contacted, which properties were sold and for what price.

ONE WHO GOT AWAY

Ocoee was a farming community, and most blacks worked in groves and fields. They picked oranges, had kitchen gardens and lived off the land when they could, fishing and hunting. Many were able to buy land and parlay hard work into a prosperity that rivaled, and sometimes surpassed, that of their white neighbors. That success could bring danger, as two of Ocoee's more prosperous black residents would discover.

Moses Norman was one of them: a 59-year-old farmer who owned a house, an orange grove and a beautiful car -- a six-cylinder Columbia with white sidewall tires, silver spokes, and elegant "storm curtains" instead of side windows. Norman was turned away from the polls on Election Day and was involved in a skirmish with poll officials. By some accounts he was belligerent and armed. By others, he was simply an unwitting victim of white efforts, marshaled in part by what was then a flourishing KKK, to keep down the black vote.

In her account of the riot, the celebrated black writer Zora Neale Hurston leaves open the ominous possibility that Norman, who was never seen in Ocoee after that Election Day incident, was killed. The Rev. Fred Maxwell says he knows better.

Maxwell, 93, has been a minister for half a century and still conducts Sunday services for his congregation at St. John Missionary Baptist Church on Central Avenue in Orlando. In 1920, he was a teenager living in the small west Lake County community of Stuckey. Maxwell says that on the night of the riot, a breathless, frightened, puzzled Moses Norman pulled up at the Maxwells' door in the sleek black Columbia, having fled the burning town.

"I remember very clearly: He told my father he didn't understand why he'd had such trouble voting, because he had voted in 1916 with no problem," Maxwell said. "I remember my father told him, 'Mose, do the next best thing.' That meant, go on, be safe, find a new life.' "

Apparently, Norman did. Property records show that he was paid $1,600 for a house and a large orange grove in 1921.

WHAT USED TO BE THEIRS

Other descendants of blacks involved in the riot say their parents and grandparents were not as fortunate.

Gladys Bell, 62, says her late father, Richard Franks, was 18 when he had to flee his family home in Ocoee, carrying an ill brother on his back. The family settled in Plymouth. When outings in their car would take them past Ocoee, her father, pointing to a stretch of roadside orange groves, would say: "All that used to be ours."

"It must have hurt him, but he was not one that would say so," she recalls. "He loved everybody, black, white, blue, green. I think, yes, restitution would do some justice. I just wish there was a way to get it back for him when he was alive."

Jack Hamiter, a retired civil engineer who worked in Philadelphia most of his life, says his grandparents, Jack and Annie Hamiter, owned a sizable orange grove in Ocoee. As recently as 25 years ago, he could still find the old cypress clapboard house where they lived.

ROSEWOOD PRECEDENT

The Ocoee riot has been compared with Rosewood, a black community in northern Florida that was burned down by a white mob in 1923. In 1994, after lawyers showed that law-enforcement officials of the time had failed to protect the property rights of the black citizens of that town, Florida legislators in 1994 agreed to pay $150,000 each to nine survivors.

Three years ago, a biracial, Apopka-based volunteer group called the Democracy Forum, organized to promote racial sensitivity, began digging into the history of the Ocoee riot. Soon an Ocoee-based group, the West Orange Reconciliation Committee, formed to compile a definitive history of the riot.

One group member is Harold Maguire, a former mayor of Ocoee. He says his father, Fred Maguire, took 23 blacks into his home to protect them from the mob violence. He also says he can remember, years after the riot, visiting a cucumber farm whose state-of-the-art irrigation system had been one of the hard-fought accomplishments of a man named July Perry.

RIOT'S MARTYR

Perry was a church deacon and a powerful black "straw boss" who supervised orange-picking crews in Ocoee. He may have been working with Moses Norman to coax other blacks in Ocoee to vote. If so, he paid dearly for his efforts.

On the day of the riot, Sam Salisbury, an Ocoee military veteran who had spent six months as Orlando police chief, led several armed men to the home of July Perry.

The best source for what happened then, from Salisbury's point of view, is his grandson, James Fleming, who peppered him for years with questions about what happened that day. Fleming, a former Orlando firefighter, says he asked Salisbury more than once whether he'd been a member of the KKK. It was the only question the old man never answered.

He did give Fleming this account:

When Perry opened the front door of his home, Salisbury grabbed him to make sure he wouldn't run. Someone -- probably Perry's daughter, Coretha -- pushed a rifle into his stomach. When he brushed the gun aside, it went off, wounding him in the right arm. People began shooting. Salisbury rolled to the ground to escape the line of fire. Perry was wounded. Two men in Salisbury's party were killed.

Later that day, according to historical accounts, Perry was arrested and taken to Orlando -- where, late that night or early the next morning, he was released from custody and lynched.

The story is an old one, retold countless times, too many times, for Salisbury's daughter, Betty Hagar, 78. Hagar is one of the members of the West Orange Reconciliation Task Force. Like many among Ocoee's old guard, she wishes people would simply forget the riot. But it's a bad-penny memory: it keeps coming back. She joined the task force, she says, to help tell the truth as she sees it -- about the riot, about her father, about the town she's lived in all her life.

"Anything to put this to rest," she says.

Anything, that is, besides the recent suggestion by acting City Manager Jim Gleason that a new park and elementary-school complex be named after July Perry to commemorate the riot.

To Hagar's way of thinking, Perry wasn't the only victim of the violence. Her father suffered, too, crippled for the rest of his life with an arm mangled from the gunshot wound.

Maguire also objected to the idea. The notion of using the complex as a memorial was dropped.

In truth, there is already a memorial, of sorts, to the Ocoee riot. You just have to know where to look.

Salisbury, who was a gun enthusiast all his life, died in 1974 from a self-inflicted gunshot wound -- caused, Betty Hagar says, when he stumbled on a rug. He is buried in Greenwood Cemetery in Orlando.

As it happens, his grave is just a few yards from an old portion of the cemetery once reserved for blacks.

It's there, in a pauper's grave no more than 20 yards away, within easy hailing distance of his old adversary, that July Perry is buried.

 

 

 

 


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