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Michael McLeod

ha that's hilarious mm

Michael McLeod

Mark:

Been thinking. Not to get all esoteric here, but as you know, when you study literature and journalism and storytelling in general one of the key principles is the principle of unity: that everything you write should have a single notion at its core, and everything you represent in your story, the structure, the images, the details,.should in some way support that single idea. 

And that's why, in Hamilton, the refrain "I'm Not Throwin' Away My Shot" is so brilliant.

It alludes to a key event - the duel that Hamilton died in - and also serves as the musical's thesis sentence, representing the ambition and interior drive that was the glue of his personality and his life.

I wish I had figured this out in time to have included it in that story I posted.

Interesting and pretty damn sad that the toxic masculinity involved in that duel has yet to go out of style.

Mark Schweickart

Mike -- And there is also the horrible irony that he advises his son to do just that, to throw away his shot, which gets him killed, and the possibility that he himself does the same thing as he faces down Burr's pistol. Brilliant echoes of a single phrase. 

Monica Haban (Brown)

OLPers and all-

Our Lady of Peace Church and School survived the diocesan cuts, though not finalized until this summer.  Sadly two parishes with schools (within a few miles of OLP) will close.  Hopefully the parishioners and students from St. Anthony and St. Mathias, will merge with OLP.  St. Mathias hosts Haitian, Nigerian, and Portugese Brazilian Masses each Sunday. The latter will be a challenge for those faith communities.  

Janie Albright (Blank)

Monica, thanks for the updates. Boy, OLP is a totally different neighborhood and different demographic. I'm not sure that many of those losing their parish will feel comfortable there. I'm afraid this might be shortsighted. Some Catholics are going to be lost along the way. We are losing enough as it is. How sad we must make these kinds of changes for those still willing to come. 

Michael McLeod

Mark:

Yeah I seem to remember that historically the details are fuzzy about the Burr/Hamilton duel.

Monica Haban (Brown)

Agree Janie.  St. Tim's is no longer scheduled to close, but when it was suggested that their parish merge with St. Andrew, am told their parishioners revolted.  St. Andrew survives.  Our Lady of Victory closes as a parish, but will remain as one of the oratories.  Such a beautiful, but tiny church as you know.  

David Mitchell

I grew up in OLP and ws married in OLV. Both hold sweet memories. I also think it odd to close some of the  parrishes you named. Still, if Rome allowed married priests we wouldn't be in this position. Love having my pastor and his assistants having young kids and grandkids. 

(last time I checked there is still only one God. I'll lay odds He's the same one.)

Did I hear correctly that the Convent at OLP is now the home of a group of nuns from India?

And all this leads me to want to apologize for not visiting with you Monica. Just one more example of someone I meant to talk with and and did not get around to it. I don't know who to blame but I demand                                                           a refund - or another reunion again,,,,, SOON.

Do I hear sleigh bells ring in the distance?

(Are ya listenin'?)

Something odd here - I cannot close the gap in that sentence.

Janie Albright (Blank)

So, it seems the issue is more lack of priests and possibly lack of enough parishioners or income from those parishioners to run a fully functioning parish. Bc you'd still have to be pay to maintain the building if you have it as an oratory. Can't figure out how that would work. 

It looks looks as if our little St Thomas over here at Cassady and Fifth avenue just north of Bexley will be closed. It has been operating along with Christ the King having some masses at each, sharing priests. This way all are served. I feel like those on the margins, not in self supporting wealthier parishes are those they are eliminating. This seems wrong on so many levels. I'm trying to give our new Bishop Fernandez a chance bc it seems these decisions were made well before he arrived a few months ago but he is really setting himself up for failure if he doesnt slow this down and help us to understand how this supports the mission of the Catholic Church. Again more will be lost.
 

Sheila McCarthy (Gardner)

I agee, Janie .... What about all the proposals for the wealthy parishes? Yes, dear St. Agatha (home of the McCarthys for decades), I'm looking at you... What message does this reinforce about the Catholic church? 

Joseph D. McCarthy

A sign in the restaurant where we ate at tonight:

     "TOUCH MY COFFEE

      I WILL SLAP YOU SO HARD

     EVEN GOOGLE WON'T

     BE ABLE TO FIND YOU"

Have a good weekend.

John Jackson

Sorry, but I’ve restrained myself for at least the last six months and only reacted to posts which I disagreed with strongly.  But ‘tis the season:

A few days ago I saw an interview with George Conway, Kellyanne’s husband (maybe former husband?), who is by any standards a very conservative guy (Trump was considering him as Solicitor General until Conway took his hat out of the ring). 

He says he’s now a former Republican who has become a single issue voter and that issue is which party stands up for democratic principles and does not traffic in election denial or crazy conspiracy theories.  He said he longs for the day when he can rejoin his party because he still believes in what the Republican Party has been about (until recently).

Given all the candidates on the right who are unwilling to accept election results unless they win (look no farther than Kari Lake and all the crazies who are running in Arizona), he’s right to be concerned.

Michael McLeod

John: you've been panning for gold I see. genuine moral and intellectual fortitude. how refreshing.

James Hamilton, M. D.

John,

For some time now, we have discussed several non-politcal topics on this Message Forum that have been fun, interesting and informative. Sorry that your post returned to politics, but maybe I am alone in that way of thinking. Again, I doubt that any political comments will change any of our voting choices,  but you are certainly free to express your thoughts.

So, go ahead and vote for those candidates who's policies with which you agree and others will likely do the same.

Have a great weekend! And don't forget to set your clocks back one hour 🕑.

Jim 

Joseph Gentilini

I have been reading all the comments and discussions but don't usually say anything.  One item from John Jackson in I think 11809.  I agree with him totally..  I think this country is on a path where our democracy could be over and our American Experience has failed.  I am scared of that.  The item is about the Columbus Diocese closing these many churches, many of them on the margins in terms of parishioners and not many of the wealthier parishes.  I know that there are not enough priests for the need, but I can't help but believe that politics has entered the process.  Who has lobbied for whom?  For many in the 'poorer' churches, they may not have the transporation to drive to another parish that is not close to them. 

I also think (and this may be controversial to some) that the Spirit is giving the Church many vocations, but the hierarchy is not listening.  Celibacy is a man-made rule that could be changed by the Vatican.  There are many men who are married who could be ordained.  If you allow Episcopalian priests who are married to be Catholic priests, the insistence on celibacy rings hollow for me.  There are Deacans who would be ordained as priests.  There are women who desire priesthood.  PJP2 said that allowing women to be priests is a closed subject for the Church, but the Church has changed many of it teachings over the years and could (and probably will) do so in the future.  I sometimes wonder if the Catholic Church would rather be a Eucharist-less church than alloweing married priests?  What would happen if we had no priests per se, but allow laymen and/or lay women facilitate the Eucharist?  I won't be alive to see any of these changes, but I think they are coming in the future.

Sheila McCarthy (Gardner)

Cheers, Joe! Well said ...... 

Michael McLeod

Since it came up i'd have to say I'm divided on the not  talking politics thing, though I lobbied for it a while back. Ultimately the way it evolved or I should say devolved on this forum -- and I include myself in any judgment I make along those lines - is just a small symptom of the larger and potentially catastrophic challenge the democracy is faced with at a time when it's so very easy to spread venom and lies.

I love the diversity I see around me and have had a chance to write about. But I do not think that we as a nation have learned how to deal with it gracefully. 

John Jackson

Jim, I’ve said before and I’ll say again that it would be a shame if this Forum devolved into nothing but politics, but I see a role for some political discussion, especially in light of the dire threat our democracy faces from people who won’t accept the results of legitimate elections.

It’s been many months since I’ve initiated any political discussion although I have responded to posts I’ve disagreed with, most recently one by MM (which you did not object to) a month ago.  

So please forgive me if once in a while I find it hard to put a smile on my face and act like everything's OK when things have gone so terribly wrong in this country.                     

James Hamilton, M. D.

John, ​​​​​​

Wow, "... things have gone so terribly wrong in this country".

That may well be the best thing we have both agreed upon since thinking that 7 PM was a horrible time for those physics departmental exams in our freshman year at ND.

Of course, I am sure we disagree on the causes of why things are "terribly wrong", but let's just leave it at that and enjoy the extra hour of sleep we get tonight.

Jim 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Michael McLeod

You make a good point, John. I was struggling to gracefully say much the same thing.

And if nothing else dr j brought a modicum of pride and a nostalgic smile to my face reminding me that the class of 66 produced at least two distinguished grads who were busting their asses at nd those many years ago.

PS:

Ribbit. Ribbit. Ribbit.

(Do you think that was the real reason they came up with the vow of silence?)

John Maxwell

David Mitchell

Joe,

You made a couple of exellent comments about "Rome" and celibacy. - a favorite topic of mine.  It might be worth recalling that celibacy was not required by the Church until about the year 1,000 or 1,100. And it was not ended for the reason so often given by today's clergy - that it is to mirror Christ's celibacy.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, (it has been many years since I read up on this bit of history) but mandatory celibacy was begun in those middle age times to end the growng problem of nepotism.

That married clergy would own the church property, and pass it on to their heirs (usually the oldest son) grew into a problem of powerful men and property ownership that was corrupting the Church. In some cases Bishops became princes and owned vast land holdings - whch needed to be defended by armies - which cost fortunes to support, and created political problems far outside the realm of the intent of the Faith.

Being invloved in an Anglican parrish for 18 years has given me a great exposure to the potential of the married pastors. They are every bit as spiritual and devout (maybe more so in my local parish) as celibate priets, and possess a somewhat more practial view of family life. And I cannot accept any opinion that wants to place "married" beneath celibate on some moral scale.

I understand that the Greek Orthodox church has a remarkably sensible slolution to the issue. They accept married or ceibate candidates for the priesthood, but require that they make the choice before ordination. I remember hearing stories of the Bishop of the Greek Orthodox Columbus diocese. He had children and grandchildren, and was widely respected and beloved by all.   

And finally, Your comment about the Church going "Eucharist-less" before allowing married priests is a very incitefull and vallid question. How bad does the situation have to get before they recognize it. 

Joseph Gentilini

 Exactly, David.  I agree with you 100%.  joe

David Mitchell

Joe,

I just thought of a P.s. on those last thougths.

Peter was married when he began to follow Christ, and although Scripture does not say so, it is suspected that a couple other Apostles may have also been.