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09/13/20 08:30 AM #8022    

 

Frank Ganley

I have avoided the  Forum for many reasons in the past several months other than as a lurker but Mary Claire your comments are way out of this world. There have been so many deaths that have beer attributed to the China virus that are generally fabricated. A recent board of experts say the number is but 10% of what states have been reporting. Every death in a hospital is recorded as death by covid .why ?  For the simple reason that the hospital receives $39000 for each Covid death! Next is the reporting of testing. If you test positive then you must be retested, now i person becomes  2 . The President shut down travel to China against the Democrats who said , why do that, that won't work. His plans were implemented weeks befor the dems has an inkling of what to do other than shout from the treetops, trump is wrong, he's killing out people, he cares only for rich whites. MC and the rest of you sheepleradical left wing who believe and preach that Trump is going the wrong way. Thinking like that scares me as does the prospect of chaos and confusion permeate the airfield that we breathe( the searchers 1964) that's another thing that plagiarist biden does not do well ( footnote) he leaves you to believe it is his. Harvard . The senate and others have uncovered quickly his propensity for stealing others work which leads me to believe he has not a single original comment or idea of his own . I can not wait for the comments saying how wrong and idiotic my thinking is but come Nov4th how sweet it will be once again when we, the silent majority rides in victory with Donal  J Trump as our champion


09/13/20 12:39 PM #8023    

 

Michael McLeod

I'm assuming you are a member of that board of experts you mentioned, Frank. Thank you for your service.


09/13/20 01:06 PM #8024    

 

Joseph D. McCarthy

Mark S.

 

You right on the money Sir.

Joe


09/13/20 01:35 PM #8025    

Timothy Lavelle

Let's have a count of hands.

Raise your hand if Mike McLeod gets the "Bon Mot Award" for 2020.

Unanimous less three votes. The ability to pull a plug and de-energize a shocking load of crap with a few words. Excellent. And if you haven't read Mike's recommendation (Cormac McCarthy) I am jealous and you are in for a treat! His characters work so hard cowboying or just staying alive that you have to go outside and dust off before taking a shower. 

 


09/13/20 02:24 PM #8026    

 

Michael McLeod

Yee-ha, podner.


09/13/20 02:49 PM #8027    

 

Mark Schweickart

What the Frank, Frank –  Where do you get your information? Is it from deepidiving into the Alex Jones cess pool, or through less well-known murkiness on the internet from posts by Yosemite Spam (now pronounced Yo! Semite!, since our always-to-be-believed leader, professor Trump, pointed out that we have been mispronouncing this all these years).

Despite Mike's joking comment, let me ask more seriously,  who are these people who are on this supposed "Board of experts" you refer to who claim hospitals are given $39,000 for every death occurriing at their facility? And so these greedy hospitals naturally will report all deaths as being due to Covid19? My brother died in April from a brain tumor and I can assure you there was nothing on his death certificate attributing his death to Covid19. And what sort of weird-ass lottery is going on that hospitals are hitting the jackpot everytime a patient dies from the virus? Who is paying for these bonuses and why? How bizarre do assertions have to become before you might say to yourself, "Well, that seems a bit far out, even if it does fit my pro-Trump worldview?" C'mon Frank, you can do better than this. Or maybe I am wrong. Maybe there is something to this idea you have put forth. Please explain how this death-bounty jackpot works.

But please be careful in doing your research. Please don't take us down some QAnon satan-worshipping pedophile by-way that no one needs to be on.

If you prefer, just lurking is okay.


09/13/20 04:42 PM #8028    

 

Michael McLeod

Just more fodder for my class this semester, Mark.

I'm having them write their term papers about disinformation and misinformation, from flat-earthers to the fake global-not-warming studies funded by the fossil fuel folks. 

 


09/13/20 05:18 PM #8029    

 

David Barbour

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/america-political-violence-risk/2020/09/11/be924628-f388-11ea-999c-67ff7bf6a9d2_story.html

This is, I think, pretty interesting and it underlines why I'm frightened.

DB


09/13/20 06:39 PM #8030    

 

Frank Ganley

Just the replies I had expected from those that push a communist, Marxist agenda proposed by that great statesman that has had no other job in his life but working for the good of the people and accomplishing nothing BUT NOW HE CAN FIX IT. I pray the Lird will open your eyes and ears to what your candidate is offering, more riots, more taxes , less rights and the down fall of our republic as it stands, I pray for you all. 


09/13/20 07:32 PM #8031    

 

John Maxwell

Going to sleep now. Wake me in 2022.

09/13/20 09:57 PM #8032    

 

Michael McLeod

So I think we can safely say we've turned a corner with this latest round of messages and become the cranky old people we used to make fun of.


09/13/20 11:16 PM #8033    

 

David Mitchell

One can find numerous accounts about this increased reimbursement to hospitals for Covid cases ($13,000), and even higher amounts ($39,000) for those who go onto respirators.

However, I believe our Forum "conversation" has left out one important detail - and that is that these reimbursements are only for Medicare patients and not all Covid patients. And the Senator/Physician, Scott Jensen of Minnesota, who first made the comments, only suggested that this "could be an avenue" for hospitals to gain increased reimbusements. He and others have pointed out that they are not aware of any such "overpayments". It went from his appearance on Laura Ingraham, to a right wing journal, and somewhere along the line, got twisted into something a little different from the whole truth.  And from there it got posted onto "FacePoop", therefore it MUST all be true - right?  

 

From USA Today in April ;

The claim: Hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19, and on ventilators

Sen. Scott Jensen, R-Minn., a physician in Minnesota, was interviewed by "The Ingraham Angle" host Laura Ingraham on April 8 on Fox News and claimed hospitals get paid more if Medicare patients are listed as having COVID-19 and get three times as much money if they need a ventilator.

The claim was published April 9 by The Spectator, a conservative publication. WorldNetDaily shared it April 10 and, according to Snopes, a related meme was shared on social media in mid-April.

Jensen took it to his own Facebook page April 15, saying, in part:

"How can anyone not believe that increasing the number of COVID-19 deaths may create an avenue for states to receive a larger portion of federal dollars. Already some states are complaining that they are not getting enough of the CARES Act dollars because they are having significantly more proportional COVID-19 deaths."

Note: the above article is lengthly - I have only copied part of it. But it's obvious this has gotten way past the facts.

------

What I find much more disrurbing now it that we read in the last few days that presidential appointees are altering the health reports to be more favorable to the President;

Look up - -

" Trump Officials Altered CDC’s Weekly COVID-19 Reports to Protect the President"  (sorry, I cannot seem to copy this from the page on which I am reading it, but Google that heading and you get multiple articles.

And this from a guy who is warning that they are "trying to 'rig the election" . "the only way they can win is to rig it".

--------

Now just where did I put those several hundred high speed mail sorters and thousands of mailboxes anyway?

 


09/13/20 11:41 PM #8034    

 

David Mitchell

In other news.......

"Minshew Madness" is alive and well in Jacksonville.

And a tropical disturbance of reality blows in over "Tompa Bay".

 

Stay tuned for tomorrow night as we see what "Buzz Lightyear" has in store for the "mile-high" maniacs this year. 


09/14/20 10:03 AM #8035    

 

Michael McLeod

Nicely explained, Dave. You get my good journalism tip of the hat award. Bythe way I think Trump gets my five star hypocricy award. He lied to us about Covid19 because he said he didn't want to panic the American people. But what's he trying to do when he says things like Biden "wants to destroy your suburbs."? I could add to that list of wild exagerrations and doomsday predictions. But you get the point. Everything he says is in service of his first-person narrative. 


09/14/20 10:08 AM #8036    

 

David Mitchell

Also a "p.s." to my previous post, 

Speaking as a non-member of the "sheeperadical left wing", I would really be curious to see who this "recent board of experts" is that claims the Covid numbers are only 10% of what is being reported. I'd love to see you try to pedddle that story to my daughter's good friend, a young female M.D. who works in an ER in downtown Manhattan (she was there during 911 also), as she has worked herself to near exhaustion over these last few months. And, according to her, it has not been a sudden outbreak in bee stings or sprained ankles.

If in fact, it was that video a month or so ago, whith the group of white coated, "experts" - it was later reported that none of that group had any experience whatsoever with Covid, and many of them didn't even have any experience in a related fiedl of practice. Most of them refused to answer questions after the video, and the few that did, admittted they had no experience with the virus. What it did manage to do was to reflect poorly on their own professionalism.     


09/14/20 10:24 AM #8037    

 

Michael McLeod

Well you bring up another sore point. I honestly can't think of a schoolyard slur about conservatives or republicans. But think of all the snowflake and sheeple shit you hear from the other side. And Trump plays to that level. So often there's very little substance, Just mindless venom and vague exagerrations.

Having said all that sometimes I'm tempted to call Jim a poopy-head.

And, I confess, when I refer to him as a pinata, what I have in mind is a donkey.


09/14/20 11:20 AM #8038    

 

Janie Albright (Blank)

As your faithful servant, also known as website admin, I try not to enter the political arena if I can help it. Neutrality seems best even if in my real life I have most definite opinions. However, as politics couldn't get more heated I thought I'd make a couple of comments. 

Frank, we all love you and I have to give you credit for the thick skin you must have to enter this heated forum. However, that being said, I would like to challenge you to watch another channel for just one week. Most like CNN, NBC, etc. are News shows as opposed to Opinion shows like those you like to quote Tucker, Sean and Laura. Just give it one week. Report back. 

You might also want read a variety of newspapers for various views. Since Covid-19 many give free articles on the virus and for full coverage have very inexpensive short terms subx to get you through the Election. They send headlines and links to articles right to your phone or computer. From New York Times leaning left to Wall Street Journal leaning right to everything in bewteen. It's good to read and watch more than one viewpoint. 

Mike, I feel confident our Forum will survive if the worst thing you can think to call someone with an opposing view is "poopy- head". :)

And, who knows, maybe Jack has the best idea, going to sleep until 2022.  ;) 


09/14/20 11:37 AM #8039    

 

Michael McLeod

Janie: what a nice post. Thank you for everything.

And as a journalist I am pained beyond all measure by certain outlets that do not deserve the name "news."

It is doing untold, absolutely untold damage, to our democracy.

And the source of it, as in the case of most misinformation, is powerful, monied interests, who have themselves and only themselves in mind.

My mother, who had class and a very good Catholic education, used to quote instructive Latin phrases now and then, and I can remember her saying: "Turpis lucre gratia."

It means: "For the sake of filthy money." 

(As is so often the case with Latin - again I channel my mom - I can see a word that is the root for a modern Engish word: turpitude. Well it's not very commonly used but it means "depravity." And "gratia" may be the root of "gratitude."

 


09/14/20 12:31 PM #8040    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike McL.,

Poopy-head? Pinata?  I've been called worse.

Just remember, pinatas can strike back:

 

Jim

 


09/14/20 12:32 PM #8041    

 

David Barbour

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/14/its-time-focus-potential-long-term-organ-damage-covid-19/

Dear Dr.Jim, 

This is not a political article but sounds very medical to me.  That is why I don't understand it.

You may be the only person in our group who can understand and explain a little to the rest of us.

I hope you will read it and comment.  Thank you for your forebearance and patience, I believe this

may be important to all .

DB


09/14/20 12:36 PM #8042    

 

Joseph D. McCarthy

And now for some news from Colorado.  (Actually my younger brother sent this to me, slightly altered by me).

An old(er) physician, Doctor Jim Geezer, became very bored in retirement and decided to re-open a medical clinic.

He put a sign up outside that said: " Dr. Geezer's Clinic.  Get your treatment for $500 - if not cured, get back $1,000."

Doctor Digger Young, who was positive that this old geezer didn't know beans abbout medicine, thought this would be a great opportunity to get $1,000.  So he went to Dr. Geezer's clinic.

Dr. Young: "Dr. Geezer, I have lost all taste in my mouth.  Can you please help me?"

Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicine from the box 22 and put 3 drops in Dr. Young's mouth."

Dr. Young: "aagh! -- This is Gasoline!

Dr. Geezer: " Congratulations!  You've got your taste back.  That will be $5.00."

Dr. Young gets annoyed and goes back after a couple of days figuring to recover his money.

Dr. Young: "I have lost my memory, I cannotremember anything."

Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicines from box 22 and put 3 drops in the patient's mouth."

Dr. Young: "Oh, no you don't -- that is gasoline!"

Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations!  You've got your memory back.  That will be $500."

Dr. Young (after losing $1,000) leavies angrily and comes back after several more days.

Dr. Young: "My eyesight has become weak  --- I can hardly see anything!"

Dr. Geezer: "Well, I don't have any medicine for that so, Here's your $1,000 back" (giving him a $10 bill).

Dr. Young: "But this is only $10!"

Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You got your vision back!  That will be $500."

Enjoy your day.  We might even be able to breath outside today.

Joe

 


09/14/20 01:13 PM #8043    

 

Michael McLeod

Yes I will be interested in Jim weighing in on that, one of the scariest things about covid19.

Early on it was understood that it attacks the lungs first, which is true.

But then they found out it was getting to other organs rapidly. And that it attacked the linings of blood vessels.

So it sounds like a very resourceful virus that's comfortable hopscotching through the body and beating the hell out of people in multiple ways. 

And the other thing I heard from more than one doctor is that the big disadvantage in dealing with it is: it came from a critter. Bats, or that other thing that looks like an armadillo, or both. And that means it's new to homo sapiens, and that means we have to start from scratch in learning how to treat it and provide a vaccine against it.

There's your layman's take. Doctor J. will surely provide bigger words and a better explanation.

Thanks for another good laugh, Joe.

 


09/14/20 05:45 PM #8044    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Dave B. and Mike McL.,

First the easy stuff: that armadillo-like animal is a pangolin. It is eaten in some countries and cultures as are bats. They must have interesting buffets!

My comments here are my opinions and thoughts based on the current status of knowledge and facts that are being reported in the medical literature and some that are in the lay press.

Zoonotic and vector borne diseases have become quite a topic in the past few decades. Vector borne diseases are spread from animals to man via mosquitos, flies, fleas, ticks and other insects. Examples would be malaria, Zika, Dengue, West Nile, Chikungunya, Lyme, plague, malaria, etc. Zoonoses usually come from direct contact with the animal by consumption, bites or physical contact. These include things like rabies, certain prion diseases and ebola. Some zoonotic diseases are capable of then being transmitted human to human. That is what occurred in HIV and SARS-CoV-2. This may or may not be due to mutations in the pathogen.

As the human race becomes more present and in contact with the wild animal world I believe we shall see more of these illnesses arise.

SARS-CoV-2 is an extremely complex microorganism. We know that, although its primary target is the respiratory system, it can infect many other organs. In fact, I suspect it is able to infect them all. Its main attachment target is the ACE-2 receptor. Once attached it can enter a cell, take over the cell's machinery causing it to make more viral particles. Those particles are then released and go on to infect more and more cells. Where are these ACE-2 receptors? They are widespread throughout the body. Many are in the heart and respiratory cells but they are also found in the endothelial (lining) of blood vessels. And blood vessels are everywhere. By autopsy and imiging techniques we know that some patients show abnormalities in very important organs like lungs, hearts, brain and kidneys. This virus also tends to activate the coagulation cascade causing thrombus and embolus formation. Pathologic specimens of the lungs show small and large clots in the pulmonary vasculature which could have come from deep veins in the pelvis or legs (emboli) or formed in the lung vessels themselves (thrombi).

I will not get into the "cytokine storm" which I have disussed in past posts. I will say that even that part of COVID-19 pathology is now being questioned as some research points to it not being a major factor. Time and more studies are needed.

There are several infectious disease models in which, after the primary infection, sequellae arise months to years later, sometimes decades. Rheumatic Fever (after Scarlet Fever from strep infection), Lyme disease (after the original tick borne infection) and Jacob-Creutzfeldt disease (decades after a prion infection) are examples. Is there such a thing with COVID-19? I think it is WAY to early to make that determination.

Many patients who were hospitalized, needed ICU and perhaps ventilator care have displayed some persistant symptoms to include fatigue, mental alertness problems, shortness of breath and other maladies. This brings up the question as to whether there is a persistant viral infection or a post viral syndrome involved. Some of those symptoms could also suggest "Post ICU Syndrome" which has been known for long before this pandemic ever existed.( It shares some, but not all, characteristics of PTSD. We all know about combat related PTSD but the syndrome can occur in others who have experienced harrowing life experiences.) Post ICU Syndrome is becoming more recognized and is being discussed more often in the medical literature over the past decade or so.

In regards to dietary measures to aid any sequellae from COVID-19, I have my doubts. Good nutrition is always a good idea. But, in these situations of post-infectious syndromes, where often the immune system is somehow "triggered" to abnormally respond over a period of months to years to decades, I do not think specific dietary changes will turn off that response.

Hope this helps,

Jim

 

 


09/14/20 09:18 PM #8045    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Joe McC., 

Wonderful story about old Doc Geezer! Sounds like a good part time retirement gig. At least until the Medicare feds looked into your coding practices 😱! 

Jim 

 


09/14/20 11:03 PM #8046    

 

Michael McLeod

Thanks Jim.

I always envisioned those ACE-2 receptors as tailor-made velcro - not by design but by sheer chance - for the virus. I'm most surprised and enlighted about the cytokine storms being questioned at this point. All the doctors I talked to had unanimously bought into that theory at the time - but it does seem from what you say that an erratic immune system response is still in the cards. Curiouser and curiouser. Makes the whole thing more mysterious still. If I come back as a smart guy I'm going for epidemiology.


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