Message Forum

Welcome to the Watterson High School Message Forum.

The message forum is an ongoing dialogue between classmates. There are no items, topics, subtopics, etc.

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Message" button to add your entry to the forum.


 
go to bottom 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page      

07/02/18 06:37 PM #3445    

 

David Mitchell

Thanks Mary Margaret

I could say "Beauty before Brains" but that wouldn't be acccurate - as I have no brains either.


07/02/18 08:26 PM #3446    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Sheila,

Thanks, in school I was once criticized for inappropriate use of commas.

(I still feel more comfortable with comas 😷 than commas 🖋️!)

Jim

07/03/18 12:24 PM #3447    

 

Michael McLeod

HA: I've given Jim a hard enough time with his politics. Think I'll lay off his punctuation. 

 


07/03/18 02:36 PM #3448    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)


07/03/18 02:39 PM #3449    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)


07/03/18 02:52 PM #3450    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

Having a grand time in Ireland, see many sur names of people in the U.S. of my classmates. Met my second cousin Gareth McAllistet who took us all through Northern Ireland. It was magical!

Belfast 


07/03/18 02:54 PM #3451    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

McAllister


07/03/18 07:09 PM #3452    

 

David Mitchell

So tell us girl, 'tis it Harp or Guiness you'll be after drinkin'?


07/04/18 07:16 AM #3453    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

No, smithwicks with a guiness head. 


07/04/18 10:34 AM #3454    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

America the Beautiful

 

 

Katharine Lee Bates penned the lines to that poem after a trip up Pikes Peak, "America's Mountain", in 1893. Likely she saw some of the same views shown here (maybe not the reservoirs in the first image). Later put to music it has been a song sung on many occasions, by many artists including Judy Garland, Ray Charles and Willie Nelson as well as millions of just plain folk. Some would like to see it as our National Anthem. Regardless, it is a love song about our country.

So, on this Independece Day, 2018, I wish all our classmates "from sea to shining sea", across the Atlantic and wherever else you may be and whatever your political persuasion, a Happy Fourth of July!

Jim


07/04/18 10:49 AM #3455    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Happy 4th of July!!

I happened upon an article today which gives voice to my own personal feelings about the path our country must pursue in order to secure the liberties we have all been blessed to enjoy and for which many have sacrificed "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor".  

Enjoy your holiday!!

President George Washington identified the link between morality and religion. According to Washington, “Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.” For Washington, morality presupposed religion, and both virtues cultivated a healthy society. Perhaps this is why he said that “[o]f all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.”

 

John Adams was of the same mind. He argued that without religion and morality, our government could not stand because “avarice, ambition, revenge, and gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net.” Hence his famous observation that the Constitution “was made only for a moral and religious people.”

 

For Washington, Adams, and many others who helped establish our constitutional system of self-government, religion, morality, freedom, and democracy are necessarily interlinked. Without the moral sensibilities that religion can provide, freedom is all too easily corrupted, endangering the very foundation of democracy.

Our Founding Fathers were not alone in calling attention to the inextricable connection between religion and a healthy democracy.

 

The renowned political philosopher Alexis de Tocqueville offered his own analysis on the subject. After spending several months observing American government and society, Tocqueville wrote his famed Democracy in America in an attempt to explain American political culture to his French counterparts.  When Tocqueville published his work in the early 19th century, the United States was a burgeoning democracy and unique as one of the only countries in the world that guaranteed religious liberty to its citizens. At this intersection of democracy and religion, Tocqueville made his most compelling observations.

 

Like Washington and Adams, Tocqueville believed that religion was essential to the success of the American political experiment. Without the moral strictures of religion, the nation’s democracy would collapse on itself. In Tocqueville’s own words, “Despotism may be able to do without faith, but freedom cannot …. How could society escape destruction if, when political ties are relaxed, moral ties are not tightened? And what can be done with a people master of itself if it is not subject to God?”

 

In other words, Tocqueville asked how the experiment of self-government could succeed if individuals refuse to submit to any moral authority beyond themselves. By posing this question, Tocqueville argued that democracy needs religion and morality to ensure that citizens exercise their freedom responsibly. Democracy needs religion to help refine the people’s moral sensibility and instill the virtues of good citizenship that make democracy possible in the first place.

 

Tocqueville also taught that democracy needs religion to temper the materialistic impulses of a free-market society. By setting our hopes and desires beyond imminent, temporal concerns and turning our hearts instead toward those in need, religion engenders charitable behavior and saves democracy from its own excesses.  In Tocqueville’s view, the free exercise of religion is not just a condition of liberal society; it is a precondition for a healthy democracy. Without religion and the moral instruction it provides, freedom falters and democracy all too easily dissolves into tyranny.

 

In this regard, religion is not merely a boon to democracy, but a bulwark against despotism.  Laws alone are incapable of instilling order and regulating moral behavior across society. As was once observed, “Our society is not held together just by law and its enforcement, but most importantly by voluntary obedience to the unenforceable and by widespread adherence to unwritten norms of right…behavior.”

 

Of course, religion and a basic sense of morality help induce such voluntary obedience to the unenforceable that Elder Oaks describes. George Washington conceded that individuals may find morality without religion, but political society needs the spiritual grounding that only religion can provide. In this regard, religion complements law in cultivating a moral citizenry.

 

Both law and religion are necessary to engender good citizenship. As the influence of religion diminishes, governments must enact more laws to fill the void and maintain a moral citizenry. So the consequence of less religious activity is not greater human freedom but greater state control. Religion, then, acts as a check on state power. It cultivates morality so governments don’t have to through the cold, impersonal machinery of law.

 

By acting as a shield against state overreach, religion is a friend to both democracy and freedom. Expanding religious freedom empowers democracy. But limiting religious freedom weakens our democratic institutions. In the most extreme case, eliminating religious freedom altogether results in tyranny and human suffering on a massive scale.

 

Consider the catastrophic state of affairs in countries that have explicitly outlawed religion. The Soviet Union, communist China under Mao, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and North Korea are prominent examples. In each of these countries, leaders committed unspeakable atrocities to enforce their own godless morality. In the absence of faith, there was no religious horizon to keep political ambitions within limits. Unencumbered by the moral restraint of religion, dictators systematically killed millions of their own people to establish their own secular vision of heaven on earth. These illustrations of totalitarianism, torture, and genocide demonstrate that a society without religion is a society without freedom.

 

Society needs religion to keep political ambitions in check. And democracy needs religion to maintain morality so that freedom can flourish.

 

 


07/04/18 01:43 PM #3456    

 

Linda Weiner (Bennett)

I love everyone’s posts even though I don’t like the politics on this main page, I appreciate the diversity. MM & Jim, even though neither of you need it, I got your back, as they say. 

Mary Ann, Hope you thoroughly enjoy your  trip. I wish I had tried to look up my ancestors when there, but since I really wasn’t very enthusiastic about another trip across the pond, i just didnt bother. I know, what was I thinking?!?!

Happy “INDEPENDENCE DAY to all. God DID shed His grace! God bless the USA! 

Have fun & be safe.  

“Weiner”

 

 

 

 

 


07/04/18 02:20 PM #3457    

 

Janie Albright (Blank)

 

On this day when we celebrate our great country and our freedom a US friend of mine who lives full time in Puerto Vallarta sent me this article about AMLO (Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador) who just won the Mexican presidential election for a single six-year term. This will not only effect Mexico but it will effect us and our Latin American neighbors. I’m sure many of you can’t stand Dick Morris but nonetheless I think it’s worth your time. I take everything I read with a grain of salt but I think there are definitely some things to be concerned about and worth pursuing from other sources if you are questioning this one. 

http://www.dickmorris.com/mexico-falls-off-the-left-end-lunch-alert/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


07/04/18 02:23 PM #3458    

 

David Mitchell

Great Piece Mary Margaret! 

He writes in a time where the climate of "Religion" may have been somewhat more tranquil than ours today. With regards to that I would add that even much of "organized religion" is guilty of the issue of mandatory enforcement - of overreaching it's own authority - a form of self-righteuousness that has spread a renewed poison in our own great country. But we can see this throughout history in all organized religious denominations.

Catholic and Protestants have both shown frightening examples of this in various times of religious "wars" and persecutions - horrifying examples to be be honest! And we see this in the militant side of Islam, and the Hindus in India, and even modern day (peacefull?) Buddhist militants in Myanmar - commiting genocide against, of all people, Muslim minorities, totally un-checked by a woman leader (who once claimed as a house prisoner of the corrupt Burmese Military) to stand for "freedom". 

It occurs to me that one of his key phrases in your post is the following:

“Our society is not held together just by law and its enforcement, but most importantly by voluntary obedience to the unenforceable and by widespread adherence to unwritten norms of right…behavior.”    ( "voluntary obedience" - hmmm, a conscious and free decision on our part to be better towards one another - to appreciate one another - to listend to one another - to try to understand one another.) What a concept!  - I could use a strong cup 'o that every day.

This seems to me (my own thoughts here) to follow hand in hand with the concept of some of Christ's teachings. The conundrm of free choice, which I believe is a God infused gift, alllows us to freely chose to love (or not) to care about one another (or not), to live for something beyond ourselves (or not), just as it does to choose to follow Him - or not. But when any religion, Catholic or otherwize comes to rely so heavily on "rules" (as with the Pharisees) and mandatory compliance (as with so many organized religions today) then the point of "faith" is missed - entirely! And with it goes the whole concept of Love. 

(and there ARE churches where this is NOT the norm - instead they atually preach joy instead of fear and dread!)

Here is something from Galations Chapter 5, verse 6  

 (I know, I know, we weren't supposed to read the Bible back then - that was supposed to be for our "less informed" Protestant cousins. We were, after all, "The One True, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church".  NEWS FLASH - we use the exact same phrase - word for word - at my the old campus of my 200 year-old Anglican church! - but not at my non-denominatinal "second campus")

Paul writes;  "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

I think that says a lot to us who claim to be on the right path!  

And when we say "God Bless America" - I sure hope so. We could use it.
 


07/04/18 02:27 PM #3459    

 

David Mitchell

To our two South Carolina gypsies wandering around the "Emerald Isle" -

Hey Mary Ann and Jeff, raise a jar (of Smithwicks) for me. And if you get to Dingle don't miss Doyle's Seafood. (an bring lots of money - it ain't fast food)

signed,

Jealous!


07/04/18 04:02 PM #3460    

 

John Jackson

Mary Ann, thanks a million for your posts - can you give us a few details on where you are in Ireland?

Seeing Mary Ann’s posts reminds me that I’ve been intending to offer my help to anyone who’s planning a trip to Ireland.  I first went there on a business trip in the early 90’s and loved it so much I’ve been back with Carol more than a dozen times.   I never really though of myself as Irish (or at least as Irish as the Nolans, Mitchells, Lavelles, Clarks, McCarthys or Ganleys who frequent this forum)  – my only link to Ireland was my father’s mother, a Yates born in Albany, New York but whose parents came over from County Sligo (and so you don’t get the wrong impression, that’s “Yates” not “Yeats” and my Irish forebears were humble folk - anything but bluebloods).  But after visiting Ireland a few times, it really got into my blood and it’s still my favorite place to go.

For Dublin a good guide book is all you need, but we’ve spent most of our time on the wild west coast and I can recommend some must-see sights that are not on the usual itineraries and easy to miss.  I know many people our age take tours and that’s fine but if you want to do it yourself, driving on the wrong side is easier than you think and you can get off the beaten path (which is definitely what you want to do in Ireland).

And if anyone takes me up on this offer I promise not to harangue them about politics – and that even includes Jim!

 


07/04/18 06:15 PM #3461    

 

Jeanine Eilers (Decker)

I am hoping that the plug for religion and its impact on society includes our brothers and sisters who follow Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.  Those religions are also part of our religious and social fabric, our traditions and our affection for the ways of our families, both close and extended.


07/04/18 07:13 PM #3462    

 

David Mitchell

Jeanine,

Sorry if my comments were taken as a plug - not my intention. Just my take on some of Tocqueville's insightful observations. I think Tocqeville is on the mark. Whenever mankind tries to act acccording to a higher moral purpose, as with our founding fathers, the rule of law becomes more widely accepted and enforceable. But when we try to force it down others throats, (as for example, the awful bloodshed between Catholic and Anglicans in 16th Century England, or the "Pilgrim's War" in Germany, to name just a couple), or it strays from  a higher moral purpose, the argument is lost. Perhaps that is one of the driving ideas behind his observations. It would seem that we as a country were "behaving" a little better back in those days. Some of the "rule of law" in today's conversation feels a bit off the mark to me. And I include some national, ethnic, social, political and "religious" groups in that accusation. 

I guess there will always be those who choose to take, to cling, and to possess. Others will experience sharing, giving and caring. I believe one induces a form of slavery, while the other offers freedom.

It brings to mind a phrase from that hot, sticky weekend in Philadelphia (with no air conditioning and no coke machine out in the hall)    "For the common good".  


07/04/18 07:26 PM #3463    

 

David Mitchell

Note: I suspected this years ago, and (after hearing it from him again and again) I am more convinced ot it now than ever. John Jackson and his wife Carol have secretly become commissioned agents of the Doolin Chamber of Commerce and Music Festival (in County Clare) and are attempting to fool you all into the idea that it is a worthwile place to go and a thorougly enjoyable event to attend. I'm just puttin' that out as a warning to ya'll.

 

(and if that wasn't presssure enough, my oldest duaghter Sara, has told me over and over again what a blast she had at one of Doolin's authentic Celtic Music get-togethers.)

So travel to Doolin will be at your own risk - the risk of wanting to get up and do a little jig right there in your seat.

 

(Im just sayin')


07/05/18 11:40 AM #3464    

 

Beth Broadhurst (Murray)

Mary Ann

Love  your posts about Ireland. They evoked wonderful memories.  While I have an English last name  My mother was 100% of Irish decent (Murphy Fitzgerald Daily and Sullivan) and my dad half Irish (Dickey, Hall) I have had five wonderful trips to Ireland and travelled to all coasts north,south east and west as well as the interior horse country.  I love the music and the colorful towns with family names above the shops. Hope to travel there again with some grandchildren. It’s great that you are embarking on such wonderful travels Africa, Ireland, what’s next?

Mary Ann I think you posted about Linda Baer Schell being ill. Do you know how she is doing? Keeping her in my prayers with the others

Jim.

Your pictures are so beautiful. I too have many regular deer visitors. Occasionally I’ll find a big buck in my driveway!   Unfortunately my yard is a regular smorgasbord.  I live in what use to be a very large apple orchard and my house is in one of the so called ancient deer paths.  In the winter snow I see their path and tracks all through my yard. They don’t touch the same plants in my neighbors to right and left.  I like to garden and landscape so it has been challenging. For the past two years they have not been eating several things that were their favorite treats and started on others. The nursery man told me that the matriarch of a herd chooses what they eat and that there  must be a new matriarch leading. 

Larry are you going to paint one of those deer pictures?

Mary Margaret.    Loved your 4th of July picture and article. 

Dave.   Sad to say I have not made it back to Barcelona since my trip was cancelled last year. 

Tim.     Hope you’re being careful. I’m trying to avoid my yearly visit to ER and have to admit to another stupid yard work accident

Everyone enjoy your summer and hope there will be another meet up in the future


07/05/18 12:33 PM #3465    

 

Michael McLeod

Thank you for bringing that up, Jeanine! I noticed, as I was reading the essay, that there was no religion specified, which is in keeping with what the founders had in mind  -- though I wish there had been something specific in there about the rights of agnostics and athiests, but I guess that's too much to ask.


07/05/18 01:08 PM #3466    

 

David Mitchell

Beth,

".........another stupid yard work incident."  ????

You're just going to leave us guessing with that?


07/05/18 01:45 PM #3467    

 

Beth Broadhurst (Murray)

Dave

I phrased that wrong. I’m fine. I didn’t have another stupid yard accident. I meant I am trying to be smart/cautious. I don’t want to embarrass myself again in the ER  relating how I injured myself doing something stupid! Hoping my frequent flyer miles in ER are expiring. 


07/05/18 07:26 PM #3468    

 

David Mitchell

Whew! You had me scared there for a minute Beth.

 


07/05/18 07:56 PM #3469    

 

David Mitchell

If this "competion" had been opened about 16 yers ago I might also qualify as an entrant. When I first came down here to work for an old Army buddy in his super high-end homebulding operation, I began in his gigantic woodworking shop. (like an Italian digital 16 inch Jointer, and a 30 inch Italian digital thickness planer, etc. - Al Judy and a few of you woodworkers will get the picture). 

It only took me a few months to have a freak accident on the table saw. I allowed a piece of wood to kick back into my tomach so hard that I doulbed over - forward - and reached my hand onto the blade of the table saw - whose blade guard we had just removed for speed (in a hurry at the end of the day - real smart). It caught my middle finger and ran up lengthwise about 2 1/2 inches.

I have joked with my kids that if you ask me to make a fist with that hand, there is one finger that remains sticking out (knuckle joint was "frozen" in surgery and cannot bend).  

BTW, one job later, working in a workshop at nearby Sun City, I got them to buy a new "SawStop" table saw and it saved another finger. Just for fun google up "SawStop" and watch the (now famous) "hotdog" demonstration. Coolest darn invention I have ever seen! 

 

AND , that first emplyer was the same best friend from Viet Nam who just completed building Al Gore's $30 million house just outside of little Carthage Tennessee. You should see it. (He wouldn't even allow me to take photos - so many non-disclosure agreemtns). Ugliest damn exterior I have ever seen! Built to match exactly with his Dad's post WW2 ugly modern California house with tri-color flagstone - white, gray, and pink - which sits a few feet away and now shares the same roofline across a small patio.

My buddy has built some amazing houses, including a $52 Million house a few years ago on Hilton Head. A guy from Czechoslovakia with more money than God. And also quite ugly. But he did build some gorgeous ones, including he and his partners first one together - Arthur Blank's (Home Depot founder and Atlanta Falcons owner) Hilton Head home for a mere $23 Million about 20 years ago - not ostentatious at all - simply magnificent and tasteful.


go to top 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page