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Timothy Lavelle

Wow, what a great game! Both sides fighting so hard to make points. 

And hey, how about that football match last night?

Frank, I was amazed at how clearly you wrote and I was going to write and ask who wrote your post for you? Then I discovered it was Jim's post I was reading. Then I got to yours and read "I donut" . What better way to address the munchies than with an "I donut?" Excellent.

As with so many thiings, our different experiences and DNA bring us to who we are today. I think maybe I am leaning toward anarchy.

Mary Margaret, I take your word usage points...just wish you wouldn't cuss so much...

James Hamilton, M. D.

David Mitchell

I want to claifry my first entry into this conversation. From what I know (which isn't much) I do support the idea of medicinal MJ for certain patients - especially pain related cases. We actually have a conservtive republican state representative here in So. Carolina arguing hard for it's legalization (an uphill battle in a state like this) and presenting a lot of good medical evidence to back up his argument.

But I think Jim's big concern is what happens to the overal community when a door is open to widespread production, sale, and use to anyone. When the "trade" begins to take on crimunal behavior as with the Cartels. The social question becomes, "are we feeding a monster". 

I'm not one to sit here and judge someone for their preferences, or their cravings, but there are effects that go beyond our own living rooms when "we" become part of millions. Its that way in our capitalist system - we vote with dollars. I think this goes for gambling, pornography, alcohol, sports, or even children's addiction to tablets (in the news lately) - and probably many other behaviors of self gratification - even golf. But it seems that this pendulum has swung quite beyond safe expectations in Colorado. 

As for the "gateway drug" idea, I think again this is a variable answer.Y es there are those who can restrain, control, or plan their use. But millions cannot. My older cousin Jim once ran a drug re-hab clinic down near OSU campus (so long ago I cannot remember). He told me that the vast majority of heroin users had started with "Mary Jane". And my late father in law, DR. Tom Hughes, got involved late in life in running an alcoholic treatment center at (I think?) St. Anthony's hospital - maybe in the 70's? He claimed the evidence bore out the genetic effects of addiction, that it was real, and that alcohol addiction was a "disease" that ran through about 10 to 15 % of all populations of society - age, sex, social background, etc.

I am sure there is still lots to learn about this. 

(Not a big Jeff Sessions fan - he and I disagree on much)

David Mitchell

Mike,

I doubt you would have climed into my cockpit anyway if you realized what you were getting into. But you raise an intersting point. We did have a few "weed" problems in our squadron, but not nearly as much as you might think or hear about elsewhere.Yet I knew it to be a more serious problem in other types of units. I cannot account for this except that it may have been a different type of person in an aviation unit than is other units - say infantry. I would probaly be accused of some sort of discrimination, but I have often wondered about this myself (not the first time anyone had asked me). In an aviation unit we were top heavy with officers and warrant officers - say 40 of us (all pilots) in a company of 200 men, compared to 3 or 4 in an infantry unit. Am I saying it was a problem with enlisted men and not officers - absolutely NOT!  We also did not have very much of it in our enlisted ranks either. My "theory" is that it was the task and the work we were inviolved with - both the mission in the air, and the long hours of  serious mechanical maintainence on the ground. There was little down time, and everyone seemed to be on the same page about getting things done. Maybe this is part of it - I have no idea, but an interesting question I've pondered for many years. 

But we did have two cases, one Warrant Office Pilot (in my own platoon - a Scout pilot), and one of our assistant crew chiefs. The crew chief, a mexican kid (Spec 5) from San Antonio who we absolutely loved. His work gradually grew more sloppy, then his memory started to get fuzzy, but the final giveaway was continiuing trend of tools disappearing from the flight line work shed - which he was in charge of. Our platoon leader finally staked out the shed late one night and followed the kid all the way back from the flight line to the airfield front gate - a long walk, where he was selling the tools for cash to locals from the town. He had been selling for months to support his habit. We were crushed when we found out. We all liked him. 

The pilot, a sort of dark soul in the midst of a bunch of happy go lucky, arogant, dare-devils, was flying for a while on weed. I don't know for how long but he came to me (of all people) to fess up first. I was terribly conflicted about "ratting" on one of my fellow platoon mates, but I had to do something. I told that same platoon leader (who was a good friend) that "Al has something important to talk to you about". They were in the process of evaluation what to do with him when he sort of punched his own ticket with another strange occurrance.  

I mentioned way back in this forum how we were such a close group and we sat together an laughed about the mission each night. Well, not EVERY night. We had our arguements - and even a couple of fist fights. One night, a guy I'll called JP was quite drunk and provoked Al into grabbing his revolver and threatening to kill JP - pointing the gun right at him. We wrestled Al to the floor and got his gun away from him. Within a few days he was gone - home - jail - I have no idea?

In my expereience, alcohol was a much bigger problem than May Jane - and much more widespread. Just our  own little platoon had several heavy drinkers - and many more throughout the company and both sisiter companies. JP the worstin our platoon by far. I mean this guy was a "drunk"!  We also had one C.O., a Major with a real serious drinking problem and we were not told until he started throwing some crazy tantrum episodes in the cockpit - during the missson!  And it would be just my luck that his first one was with me as his co-pilot, trying to pick up a downed Loach pilot under fire. The most confusing and hair raising 5 or 6 minutes of my life. He's the one who later was flown away to LBJ under heavy sedation and in a straight jacket. 

I could share some funny stuff about JP, but this is getting too long (again). He flew my wing for several months and boy was that an adventure! I found him a few years ago by phone and his 3rd wife has made him quit drinking. But he is still a character.

David Mitchell

I failed to include one other addiction; this Forum

David Mitchell

I posted something back on the 7th that I need to add an update to. I praised the film makers of "All the Money In the World" for deleteing every Kevin Spacey scene and re-shooting it all with Christopher Plummer. That was admirable. 

But yesterday the news broke that they payed Mark Wahlburg $1.5 million to re-do his scenes and Michelle Williams only got $1,000. BOOO! Wrong!

I know it's not germain to this Forum, but I just didn't want this to go without my acknowledgment.

Frank Ganley

Jim I understand addiction all to well. After my spinal fusion c4-5 the pain though phantom pain remained and unfortunately only OxyContin was the only one that worked I would have preferred rorer 714 but they don’t make them anymore. I only took one about every 3 Days so I didn’t get hooked. My gp doctor , I began seeing him in 1983 and my patient number was 228, so I have seen him since he first started his practice. We both were under the impression I was not going to get hooked. All was well until the range I was at closed. While looking for another range to work at I got the flu so bad I wanted to die. I took everything I could for flu that I could. My eyes hung down to my mouth, my ears were running my nose did the same I couldn’t stop pucking and the diarrhea was endless. I told my wife just give me an oxi so I can pass out and go to sleep. She gave me one and 2 minutes later , hey let’s party. I was in sever withdrawal. The next day my poor doctor was begging for forgiveness for the addiction.  I just rode it out and two weeks later I was done. Cigarettes are the same to quit. Not as sever but equally mean and nasty as anyone who ever quit will tell you  . If I smoked one ciggy I’d have a pack in my pocket in less than an hour when I had bi-lateral tarsal tunnel release I again became addicted to the pain meds and then in the process of healing I got e-colu in the wound and almost to the bone so they kept me on Oxus and methadone  . There is nothing recreational about that one  you druell , mumble, fingers shake and twitch and it is no fun  the getting off these again no fun  . Never have any of these symptoms  or urges come to me with pot  no signs no feelings of it , I don’t want to beat the dead horse but those that don’t partake for one reason or another fear not for hallucinations ( like lsd) no passing out other than sleep and bad urges to commit crimes  I do not approve it for children as I feel the same about booze but like booze want it you’ll find it.  If it weren’t for pot I’d still be skinny like  tim Lavelle as I get plaques with the munchies  hey is that a White Castle  . 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Timothy Lavelle

Frankie, I think you may have done a real favor for some portion of your old classmates. I had trouble coming off Oxy a couple of months ago and it scared the crap out of me. Was really ashamed. Took a doctor's help. If people understand how easy it is to "stay happy, take a nappy" on that stuff in the face of ongoing pain - leading direcly to "How soon can I have another" they may be more careful when they have to use it.

Dave, I think we all commonly root for the underdog, a position that women and racial minorities often find themselves in where pay or just getting hired is the issue. But in terms of running a business, let me throw some gasoline around and invite you all to bring the matches. I don't believe I owe anyone $15 per hour (any sum will do as an example) if they offer to work for free or any amount less than $15. If they ask/demand $15 per hour, it is up to me to decide if they bring more than $15 per hour to the party - like, can I afford this person and still make a proft. I do agree that we should be more fair in hiring and paying people...but I also believe that people have to be strong and step up and ask for it - prove they are worth it - be willing to quit and go somewhere else if that is necessary. I am talking "in general" here as I know there are many cases where people are still economic slaves as the blacks were in the south after the civil war. Just another 2 cents.

Jim, about this bump on my neck again......

David Mitchell

Tim. Agreed. Just didn't want to be misconstrued about my first comments on the film.

Frank's post about his medical issues really gave me a jolt.

Speaking of Oxycontin, I hope some of you saw the two 60 minutes episodes (within about a month recently) showing the outrgeous pracrices of the major drug suppliers (with the help of our brave congressmen)  regarding the widespread distribution of OXY! A couple of shameful and terrifying episodes about the problem and how the Congress repeatedly forced the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) to back off and let the distribution problem grow wildly out of control ---- mostly (not all) Republican congresmen who stood to gain by the lobbying funds from firms like McKesson. A frightening testimony by seveal long time DEA agents who were repeatedly thwarted in their attempts to expose the magnitude of the problem. 

David Mitchell

I still get lost on this site. Can somebody direct me back to the page that lists the month's upcoming birthdays?

Michael McLeod

Thanks for speaking up, Tim.

Untold damage, still ongoing and largely unaddressed, pollitics and greed at the root of it from start to finish -- and we still haven't gotten to the latter on this one. 

David Mitchell

Just couldn't resist throwing in this little "news-related" item. Not trying to ignite another firestorm on the Forum, just couldn't let the remarks of this past week go without comment. This is a group of Haitian Soldiers fighting (unsuccessfully) to defend Savannah from the British in the Revolutionary War during the siege of Savannah in 1779. 

The presence of the 500 Chasseurs-Volontaires de Saint-Domingue as the largest unit of soldiers of African descent to fight in this war is worthy of commemoration. The fact that their number was made up of free men who volunteered for this expedition is startling to most people and surprising to many historians. Their presence reminds us that men of African heritage were to be found on most battlefields of the Revolution in large numbers. As a new and relatively inexperienced unit, the Chasseurs participated in the siege warfare including the battle of September 24th and the siege of October 9th.

David Mitchell

Also wanted to post this article. It's purely a stamp collecting post - right?      

I knew Dave and Tim would be especially interested - in the stamp that is.

How quickly we forget another Revolutionary War Era contributor to our history.  I speak of Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable, who is immortalized on one of our postage stamps.

DuSable, honored as the founder of Chicago, represents not only Haiti, and our deep connections, but ties to our First Nations peoples as well.

Du Sable's birth year is highly uncertain, but is generally believed to have been between 1730 and 1745. Many of the stories about him are unconfirmed, especially those involving his early years. He was born at Saint-Marc in the French Caribbean colony of Saint-Domingue, present-day Haiti, to a slave named Suzanna and a French pirate's mate named Pointe du Sable who served on the Black Sea Gull. Suzanna may have been killed in a Spanish raid on Saint-Domingue. If this raid took place, Jean Baptiste may have escaped by swimming out to his father's ship. After his father sent him to study at a Catholic school in France, du Sable and a friend, Jacques Clamorgan, traveled to Louisiana and then to Michigan, where he married a Potawatomi woman named Kittahawa (fleet-of-foot). To marry her, the twenty-five-year-old Jean Baptiste had to become a member of her tribe. He took an eagle as his tribal symbol. The Potawatomi called him "Black Chief," and he became a high ranking member of the tribe. They had a son and daughter, Jean and Susanne. 
In 1779, during the Revolutionary War, he was imprisoned briefly by the British in Fort Michilimackinac in Michigan, because of his French connections and on suspicion of being a US spy. He helped George Rogers Clark in his capture of Vincennes during the war. From the summer of 1780 until May of 1784, du Sable managed the Pinery, a huge tract of woodlands claimed by British Lt. Patrick Sinclair on the St. Clair River in eastern Michigan. Du Sable and his family lived at a cabin at the mouth of the Pine River in what is now the city of St. Clair.

Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable first arrived on the western shores of Lake Michigan about 1779, where he built the first permanent nonindigenous settlement, at the mouth of the river just east of the present Michigan Avenue Bridge on the north bank. Before it was anything else, Chicago was a trading post. As its first permanent resident, du Sable operated the first fur-trading post during the two decades before his departure in 1800. Du Sable built his first house in the 1770s on the land now known as Pioneer Court, thirty years before Fort Dearborn was established on the banks of the Chicago River.

Timothy Lavelle

Going to take you back for a moment. We were the generation that came after WWII so we were inundated with the history of that era. Winston Churchill was a favorite hero (amongst some few others) for many folks. Steve Royer and I, at 16, used to laugh and shout "Do it for Winny" as he would drive down old country roads out in Delaware at night, with his jalopy's lights turned off. He would scare the hell put of me. Today, I would put my son in a cell and throw away the key if he did stuff like that.

So, I just came back from taking Dave Mitchell's advice to go see Darkest Hour. I have grown so much more emtional in these last years...as it did me, this movie is likely to move you to tears of pride and thankfullness that we had such crazy strong leaders at one time. It will make you wonder, I think. Go see it. Dave was right, you'll be glad you did. Do it for Winny!

Michael McLeod

I'd be interested if anyone else notices becoming much more emotional over time, as you briefly mentioned, Tim. Something tells me it's a natural process. We ought to be growing better at processing things logically as we grow; doesn't it follow that we ought to be expanding emotionally, as well?

I've experienced tragedies and loss over the years, as we all have, and I think, if you process the pain, if you don't supress it but expand to encompass it, you open yourself up to feeling more emotion in general, both the good and the bad. 

I can say this more succinctly by noting that the older we grow the less we tend to care about being judged and keeping up appearances. I don't give a crap anymore if people either a) see me crying or b) see me moving my shoulders to the beat of good song in the supermarket. (We have a great chain down here called Publix that plays quite a good array, including 60s & 70s hits, quite regularly).  A lady in the produce aisle came up to me with a grin on her face the other day and said:  "You really feelin' it!" -- and I grinned and said, quite honestly, "I don't know why, but any more, I can't help myself." Later I wished I had added a lyric from my favorite Broadway musical, though it wasn't the tune that was playing at the time:

I have been changed. For good. 

Mark Schweickart

Tim.

I concur in highly recommending "The Darkest Hour." It is especially effective if you have already seen "Dunkirk" since the two take place at precisely the same point in time.

Also, your "Do it for Winny," comment takes me back. I can distinctly remember you shouting this out one day at Watterson, which left me wondering, "What an odd thing to say." I somehow connected that you were referring to Winston Churchill, and coud see that perhaps this was an expression that may have emerged from the denizens of London dealing with their need to push on during the dark days of the German bombing raids. But somehow, aside from this time when you shouted it out, I had never heard this expression. Is this something your father brought back from the War and became a houshold expression among the LaVelles? Or was I just being stupid, because most everyone would have known this and I was just someone who did not?

James Hamilton, M. D.

Joseph Donahue

Michael, we are defying gravity.

David Fredericks

Dave....thanks for the history piece on Du Sable, and for the plug for our hobby!

Frank Ganley

I read an interesting article in Rolling stone recently while visiting one of my favourite waiting rooms of one of my favourite doctors. which in itself, going to the doctors is a great new hobby as we grew older! In the article, it explained that the crying gene, yes the one that makes us all more sensitive, starts to kick in around 60. I think it is for the stability in marriage. If this gene didn't kick in all men would be killed by their wife as we retire. The wife, will not watch UFC, or MMA or football for that matter forcing us to have to watch something on the hallmark channel or a rom-com, I like Kate Hudson and Matthew Mcconahee movies. the Lord in His infinite wisdom allows us to metamorphose into a kinder human being. The other gene in medical terms is called the F*&K You gene but we'll refer to it as the up your gene. That starts to kick in by 55 but like fine wine, it blossoms with age. I have discovered with my own passage of time and understanding of it have realized that by the time we are 65 it is at full blast. Where I will call for a manager as soon as I think I am getting the runaround, and with each passing moment whoa pity the next guy who tries to appease me. This gene also has the side effect of taking great joy in screwing with salesmen that call you on the phone or knock on your door trying to sell you something... Give me a good window salesman, I'll have him thinking about 20,000 replacement contract, or my favourite is the sheriff's fund. I hope this article's explanation that I have paraphrased helps in your understanding of our ever-changing moods and emotions.

Michael McLeod

Joe: LOL.

Timothy Lavelle

Mark,

"Do it for Winny" was just some exuberance from Royer or I. The stories and movies of WWII, and cowboy movies, is what we all grew up on. We all knew the words to Paladin, and war, as seen on TV shows like Combat, still seemed gallant and honorable -  did not seem so phony until many years later when John Wayne tried to play a green beret in VN.  My Dad was born in 1908, older than most parents...too young for WWI and married with three children by 1941/WWII. Three of his four boys served eventually. One Hippie-Pinko!

I am always amazed by what you and others remember from back then. I recall being mesmerized by the older girls...about how we as Freshmen looked like kids but the senior girls looked like WOMEN...va-va-voom! It just seemed so strange that we would change that much in four short years. Thanks for your remembrance this time around. And yeah, "Dunkirk" was a perfect lead in and very enjoyable. Next time you are in London you can tour th original War Rooms shown in "Darkest Hour".

I drove into town to go to the post office today. On Martin Luther King Day. A federal holiday...I am a bonehead still!

Beautiful day here but I gotta go cut kindling for the coming cold weather. Party on!

James Hamilton, M. D.

Tim,

Cut kindling? Can you be trusted with an axe (or any other tool with a sharp edge)?

Timothy Lavelle

Jim, You know when I wrote that line, I thought that I would get a little pushback from some "Can we really trust this guy with scissors?" type person. But not Jim. Surely, not Jim!

One of the following is true:

1) I have a open contract with Al Judy for a hundred pounds of handmade kindling each month which frees me from work and likely will keep me alive for extra years.

2) I have a smaller type of log splitter that is perfect for turning big pieces of firewood into smaller ppieces of kindling. Easy as that sounds, I half split a piece of firewood and then had to pull it off the machine to reposition it. To do that, I put my right hand inside the part of the log I had just partially split. What do you think happened when I pulled it off the machine. Al would have laughed his tail off as I clamped my own jaws and, while dancing a bit of a jig, searched the shop for some tool that I could use to free my hand from a really painful 'jaws of death' type experience. Somehow I missed the "able to use simple tools" gene and instead got the "simple tool" one. Party on.