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Michael McLeod

John:

As an educator who is in a relationship with an educator, I see the duping of certain paranoid parts of the public from a particular band width. Well, two of them.

I'm teaching college level students to write and think clearly and express themselves with the benefit of solid writing structure and skills. That task consumes all my time; I sure don't have the time or inclination to indoctrinate them with any particular social, political, or ethical way of looking at life). 

My significant other is at the other end of the spectrum, teaching first, second and third graders in a public school as a dedicated profession with three decades of Montessori training who leaves at 6 am and gets home at 6 pm and still doesn't have as much time as she'd like to deal with crazy parents and mixed-up kids and public school bureaucracy -- a public school system under seige at the moment thanks to a guv bent on using the system to score points with his base).

I surely hope my student and hers derive something in thinking and judgement that will assist them to work their way through a troubled, troubled political and economic landscape. Down here in Florida we have a governor who thinks we're brainwashing them. But I can assure you that nobody we know in either of our educational sphere has the time or inclination to do anything other than survive another day and hope that our student come out thinking and expressing themselves clearly, whatever their political views may be. Hell, with both of us it's a win if the majority of them turn up for class. Hopefully, somehow, when they do turn up we can do something to equip them with the logical and argumentative skills that will help them to see through the bs that infects the information landscape as typifiied by paranoia and ignorance capitalizing enterprises paranoid like Fox. 

I'm probably just queing up mm1 here -- in fact, I'll be disappointed if I don't; it's a healthy debate -- but what the hell. I really just want to make this point. Maybe someone already posted this here - but you have probably seen the stories about the steep decline in our national IQ. Fox getting cracked on the knuckles won't do much to dissuade others from continuing to take advantage of that.

If you want to get paranoid, get paranoid about that.

David Mitchell

I'm feeling realy old these days. 

I'm so old I can remember way back in my childhood when we went to Catholic schools, and the wonderful (underpaid) nuns kept talking about these ideas caled the Ten Commandments - or one could call them "God's rules to live by".

If I recall corectly, one of them was "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" (Thou shalt not lie). And furthermore that lying was a sin.

I think that included the act of lying (commission), and the act of not telling the truth(omission). And maybe even allowing others to lie, and making it sound like they were telling the truth. Or the act of giving voice to and promoting others who lied.

But times have changed. I believe Comrade Tuckereo Rose Carlson also went to Catholic schools. But he is a younger man and they seem to have altered the curriculum somewhat since our own school days. 

Reading all these court filings over the past month showing public admissions of him and his buddies, Laura, Sean, Maria, and the rest of the gang, covering for the lying, giving voice to the liars, and sharing their agreement to keep lying (even pressuring the Company to fire one lady who attempted to stem the lying) seems to me to go directly against that same 9th commadment.  

After a huge - and newsworthy - settlement (though a mere slap on the wrist to Mr. Murdoch) in this Dominion Case this week, Fox News did not even mention the settlement on air. I was shocked to learn they were not even required to make any public apology or admission of guilt. 

But last night (or was it the night before?) Tucker added one more (barely perceptible) insult to injury. As he was closing his broadcast, and his voice was tailing off, he added the comment (about his show), ....."the enemy of smugness and lying". 

Wow!  I gotta hand it to ya Tucker, that took balls.

David Mitchell

After falling behind this past week, I was reading all the discussion between Mike, Jim, and Mark. It causes me to offer a suggetion for this Forum.

I realy think we should caution any Physician, writing from above 5,000 feet above sea level from engaging any English Majors who write from below 200 feet above sea level, and also consider forbidding any playwriter living on or near the San Andreas fault line - (not to mention close to Hollwood) - from responding to either one of the two.

Maybe we could consider requiring better uniform background checks before permitting them to post. 

Joseph Gentilini

Regarding Dave Mitchell's comment about Tucker Carlson (and FOX news or lack ot it) - I think the man does have balls or is just mentally ill.  Regardless, his antics and lies on TV makes me think he is a traitor to this country as he supports Russia in this Ukraine war.  The man is dangerous to our democracy.  joe

John Maxwell

Mark Schweickart

Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe (a little 1919 sports allusion for you baseball fans).

Dave, following your geographical lead, this faulty writer from the land of the San Andreas fault must ask you if  your calling for my banishment from the Forum implies that you have jumped on the ban-the-books bandwagon that is rolling through the Southeast these days. Oh no, say it ain't so!

Pray tell, what did I say that offended you so mightily – was it my attempt to take up Monsieur McCloud's find-the-grammatical-error challenge, or perhaps my embarrassing ignorance of how a pectoral cardio implant (or whatever that gizmo is called) functions, or was it my having the temerity to picture poor Garrison face down in his key lime pie?

Oh woe is me. This old English major slumps down with poor Romeo's words echoing:

There is no world without Verona walls (or our Forum)
But purgatory, torture, hell itself.
Hence-banishéd is banish'd from the world,
And world's exile is death: then banishéd,
Is death mis-term'd: calling death banishment,
Thou cutt'st my head off with a golden axe,
And smilest upon the stroke that murders me.

Ah, but I can sense your reaction, Prince Dave. Would it not be something  like: "This is exactly the tiresome sort of English-major bullshit, we really don't need. Banish him hence, I say. Like Romeo, he is banishéd!

What sayest ye Forum-ites, is poor deluded Marco to be forever Forum-severed?

How about if he promises to dial it back a bit?

David Mitchell

Mark,

I was hoping you would see my ridiculous post for what it was intended - mere sarcasm - one of my best/worst traits - and one that often goes misunderstood and gets me in troubble.

But by all means, do watch out for that fault line. 

Joseph D. McCarthy

For anyone who wants to understand the political situation, or problems with political parties, today they should read the article that starts on Page C1 of today's Wall street journal.  What I read, the articles author is  mainly castigated both parties.  The gist that I got was that the Special Action Committes, along with major donors, are responsible.  

My own thought is that problems were heavily impacted by the U.S. Supreme Court allowing corporations to have a say in politcs.  My objection stems from the C.E.O's of companies to decide how and what receives money from the corporation without input from INDIVIDUAL investors, not the funds that everyone invested in that just votes to allow it to happen.

Mark Schweickart

Dave -- I guessed as much, but the English major in me couldn't resist using your comments as an excuse to launch myself into a (to quote myself) "tiresome" response. (Of course it wasn't at all tiresome for me while writing it. I enjoyed myself immensely, so thanks for the provocation.)

John Jackson

Mark, at the risk of subjecting myself to relentless ridicule, I have a confession to make.  Notre Dame had a combined Arts and Engineering program that got you both an engineering and a liberal arts degree in five years (although it was a lot of extra work).  I seriously considered it and had I done it, I definitely would have chosen English as my liberal arts degree. 

Of all my courses, I still consider my English courses the most valuable – more than any of my science or engineering courses they taught me how to think and to organize my thoughts, skills that are essential in almost anything you do later in life.

I had the usual freshman composition course that humbled me and made me realize that both my thought processes and writing skills left a lot to be desired.  I survived (and learned a lot from) that course and then took as a sophomore a full-year literature course that was basically the Norton Anthology (although the Norton Anthology is so vast that we probably only covered a quarter of it).

But at the end of sophomore year I had to make the final choice and I chose the straight engineering option, so I put my nose to the grindstone and graduated on time.

So there it is and now you all know – I’m an English major wanna-be.  To quote Pat Benatar (who came along a little too late to make the Norton Anthology) – hit me with your best shot – fire away!

Michael McLeod

Say bye bye to two beyonds -- number one, as it applies to what we thought we knew about the big bang theory and number two, as it applies to whatever we used to buy at bed bath and beyond, which has been battered by bankruptcy. Bad break for the soon to be bygone biz,  but bountiful bargains await when bed bath and beyond busts out a big bad going out of business  bonanza from Boise to Baltimore. Begins Wednesday in bed bath and beyond stores.. Bring a buddy. I'll sit this one out. I will not be awaiting it with bated breath, It's too boucoup for my bank account even at bargain basement prices.

I once met a woman, I swear this it true, who told me she was psychic and that she once had an other worldy experience at bed bath and (insert spooky music here) beyond.

But far more serious matters await. Nice to see them embraced as we elders opine.

Whatever your leanings it certainly seems obvious that our country is searching its soul these days, or at least it should be. 

Helluva zeitgeist we're haunted by. Conceptual chaos reigns. Trump provided the jump start but it was bound to happen with or without him.

Core breakthrough changes and debates afoot in education, legislature, spiritual beliefs, sexuality,and hand to hand combat rules - at least when it comes to politics. In the meantime,,if you have been reading up on astrophysics, our place in the universe, or rather our grasp of iit,  has literally, radically, gone topsy turvy thanks to what the Jim Webb turned up. In case you hadn't heard. the Big Bang Theory Went Boom.

I think the info overload makes this the most tempetuous period of our lifetime. I kinda like it. 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike, I completely agree with your assessment of the challenges that not only Americans, but also the people around the world are facing. I often think to myself that the dangers that are coming at us with ever-increasing speed are unstoppable. But then I listen to discussions such as the one in the video link below.

https://youtu.be/uXg56vmA-SM

Michael McLeod

OK mm I'll look if you promise me it doesn't include or allude to the word "woke" and come off as finger-pointing doctrinare judgmentalism. 

hell yes I'm suspicious.

Mark Schweickart

Mike -- you may want to check your sources that report the dismissal of the Big Bang Theory. Here's a source that maintains these as just more examples  of science denying. 
https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-didnt-break-big-bang-explained

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.. Aristotle

Michael McLeod

I checked it out Mark, geeky stuff being more to my taste that the philosophical material mm wants me to look at. This is rarified science and instrumentation so it doesn't surprise me there is debate. But if he's right there are a hell of a lot of the world's best astrophysicists who are all wrong, not to mention a multi billion dollar instrument.

And I'm rooting for the universe, to tell you the truth. I like its indecipherability, if that's a word. And thumbs up to the Aristotle position on treading water.

In general, I think it's easier to assume the universe has always been around -- that there was no specific beginning where something emerged from nothing. Pare it down to a single word - eternity - and at least you save your breath.

John Maxwell

Mark Schweickart

Jack -- I know you and I both had filmmaking aspirations that met with only limited success, so it's nice to see that our sons are making their careers happen in the industry better than we did. We did all right, and managed to pay our bills, but this next generation has made better inroads into the more mainstream activities. My son worked on the post production team for the last three Ang Lee films, and now is a team leader at Adobe for their tools that auto-sync picture and sound as it sends the data to the cloud from the set so that what used to be called "dailies" can be viewed instantly by production personnel anywhere in the world. Pretty heady stuff that I only barely understand. A long way from tape splicers and upright Moviolas from our younger days. 
 

Mike -- I can't really engage you on this astronomy topic. I'm the kind of guy who can't wrap his head around a concept like the existence of black holes, let alone of a time before there was time, or whatever it is that a Big Bang implies. I suggest we let the astrophysicists fight it out. 

David Mitchell

Oh my!

Big Bang, Zeithgiests, and Bed, Bath, and Beyond Recognition. Only on this forum could such varied topics find a common place to land. How am I going to ever get to redeem the dozens of 20% Off BB&B coupons I have saved for my new microwave?

-----------

Big Bang is a fascinating thing. I fully believe it happend, but, was that thee begining? I ask myself how did that precise mixture of gasses come together at that precise moment, at that precise temperature, and in that precise location? What brought all that about?

I read some years back (and cannot find it now) that one of the world's leading astrophysicists, a specialist in the Big Bang, said it was simply not correct. He happend to be on the faculty of a little school along the banks of the Olentangy River just north of downtwon Columbus Ohio.  

 ------------

Mike, and John, and Mark, and Jack, 

Thinking about the topic of English majors reminds me how much I have wished that Keith Groff had joined the Forum years ago. I guess he just insn't that interested. I won't divulge all of his background but it's quite a C.V. of college Englsih professor assignments, around the country and Europe, including two Fullbright Scholarships (Egypt and Brazil). After His Mom died he came home from a teaching position at a smal Catholic University in (I think) Philly, and stayed. He then became the original founding Dean of the new Liberal Arts School at Franklin University.

He shared a comment with me one time about his reputation for excellent grammar amongst his peers. He said he had been asked often by fellow professors about how he learned to be so precise with the written word and his answer was always the same - "I was taught by Dominican Nuns".

David Mitchell

John,

Knowing you for as long and as well as I do, I feel compelled as your friend to say that I think you wasted your time in the wrong program at ND.

We in your OLP class could tell very early on how you struggled academically.

You should have gone to accounting school. That way you could count beans in a jar instead of inventing that silly little "laser beam, silicone coating on a microchip thickness reading (to within a two thousanth of an inch)" machine that performs a function noone else on the planet could possibly have dreamed up. 

And I should have gone to Rome to become the Pope.

Michael McLeod

wow. thanks for the update about Keith. Had no idea.

Mark: I'm clueless too. The general gist I can grasp but if God is in the details, as they say,  I'm a lost soul.

Mark Schweickart

Wow, Dave, I had no idea we had such an impressive inventor in our midst.

Professor Jackson, please be so kind as to tell us something more about what Dave is alluding to. But go easy on us. Some of us non-scientific types can get lost in the weeds rather easily, as demonstrated by Dave's attempt to explain your product. (No offense, Dave.) 

Michael McLeod

Doctor Mitchell:

Interestingly enough, "Big Bang" originated as a derisive term decades ago, when astronomers first began noticing that everything in the universe appeared to be rapidly receeding as if from a single point. It was coined by the outspoken Cambridge astronomer Fred Hoyle, who thought the bb theory was bs.

My own theory is that the universe will continue to expand and contract indefinitely in this manner and will never "burn out."  What's great about my theory is that I have absolutely no evidence to support it, so there is no sense in arguing with me about it.

Regards,

Doctor McLeod

ps what is a zeithgiest? is that like a zither?

David Mitchell

Imagine that! 

We got ousrselves through one whole day without even mentioning Tucker, or Don.

But the sun still came up in the East this morning.

Life is good.

(Gotta love this irony - they have both hired the same "entertainment attorney")

David Mitchell

Another icon of our youth passes.