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https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2022/05/25/cardinal-cupich-uvalde-shooting-gun-control-243057

The Second Ammendment Didn’t Come Down from Mt. Sinai

05/26/22 01:36 PM

#11182

Rather than making this tragedy about the 2nd Amendment (pro or against), or making this tragedy about Republicans and Democrats, could we not just focus on what exactly is going on in our society that is different from the past? After all, guns were prevalent in our society when we were growing up and there were fewer gun laws and yet we did not have these tragic incidents occuring. So what is different? I suggest that it's not the guns....it is we the people who have created a secular culture that has no regard for traditional institutions and has lost its moral compass. Why are our kids shooting kids, committing suicide, dying from fentanyl, joining gangs, and suffering from depression and loneliness? Could it be that the vast majority of our generation grew up with a mother and a father in the home where our innocence was protected and the family unit was respected? Could it be that the majority of us also grew up as members of a religious community where we acknowledged the presence of a God who provided us with a roadmap to living a virtuous life? Have we as a nation forgotten that it is the family that is the basic unit of any society, and that the foundation of the family is the marriage between a man and a woman and the parent-child relationship?

I would suggest that rather than focusing on the guns, we focus on the root causes that have resulted in such disregard for human life as America has recently experienced, such as the emotional health and spiritual vacuum of those young people who feel so disconnected from love of self and love of others. Perhaps America might look to Hungary who has been taking steps to build a family- friendly country for the past 11 years. For example, their Minister for Families. Katalin Novak, recently said this in an interview: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/families-are-the-basic-units-of-any-society-hungarian-minister-for-families/

“(Families) are the fabric of our society; if we undo this fabric, our societies as a whole will come apart,” she continued.

“It is where children experience and learn love, solidarity, but also responsibility and the value of community. Not all children are lucky enough to grow up in a happy family, but it is the interest of society and therefore the duty of the state to help and defend families.”

I offer this post only as food for thought. I well remember early in grade school at IC where I learned that the strength of any society depends upon the strength of its families. I believe that what we are witnessing today is how that fabric has been torn apart along with all of its repercussions.

05/26/22 07:31 PM

#11183

Mark Schweickart

An artist acquaintance of mine, Rich Wilkie, has done a series of portraits based on photographs of Ukranian refugee children. If you're interested, you can purchase these as original oils, or as prints, on his website, www.richwilkie.com, and most of the proceeds go to the International Committee of the Red Cross. I bought this one, which I thought conveyed beautifully the coldness, the confusion, the sadness, and perhaps even the anger of this child caught in the chaos:

Here are others he has done so far, equally haunting in my opinion:

05/27/22 12:58 AM

#11184

Janie,

Great point! And you quote a great source to back it up. The elements of the constirution are "sacred" only because we made them that.

Mary Margaret,

I would have been ready to jump on board with almost all of what you said - all the family unit and moral aspects, which I agree with - until you mentioned Hungary.

REALLY? What a strange example to make your point.

A country that is being led by Viktor Ormond, who is gradually becoming the Hitler of Eastern Europe. I have two good friends who are hungarian (the brother, now living in Germany, and his sister in Buda Pest). They were excited to see Ormond come into office and applauded his restrictions on refugees from the Middle East (I disagreed with them on that). But now they are faced with a country where their individaul rights are gradualy being taken away. My good friend, the brother is quite worried for his sister and brother in law in Buda Pest. She is a registerd nurse, but thier economy is so bad she makes more as a retail shop clerk. She speaks four or five languages and wants to leave, but her husband is too uneducated to live elswhere.

They are originally ethnic-Hungarian Romanians (as are most Romanians from the Transylvania region - yes, home of "Vlad the Impaler") He was in my men's group at church years ago, then I helped pay part of his way though medical school back in Romania (The Medical College of Targu Mujres) years ago. He came back each summer to live with me and make. a bit more "American cash" for school. He has had a hard life but it quite a well-informed young man. He says most Hungarians are quite woried about their future.

05/27/22 07:11 AM

#11185

Dave, I do not know of rights being taken away from Hungarians, I was referencing an article which I linked to which shared the ways families were being supported in their country. I stand by the points being made in the article which supported my belief regarding the root cause of the violence in our culture which stems from a disregard for the value of human life and the devaluing of the traditional family in America.

05/27/22 08:02 AM

#11186

Frank Ganley

To arm or not to arm that is the question. The second amendment was out there to protect us from government, ask a person who grew up in Germany when hitler took away all the guns, hitler then had complete control and the populists could not fight back. let's look at some cities or states with the toughest gun laws but for the sheer sake of brevity e will only use chicago , they have the most stringent laws concerning guns, more laws than any city or state in the country, they also are number one in murder. More laws are not the answer, you will get all the guns from law abiding citizens but do you think that a gangrene or criminal will surrender his? One answer is to have God back into our lives, and make families the priority. Gang thrive because these children have no sense of belonging. Daddy is gone off to another woman or to prison. Mom is gone off to work to try to keep her children fed or she is off finding a new man and have more babies to get more welfare. So these children have no home life where there is a sense of belonging, rules to live by. So where do they go, gangs! Why , to belong to something. To have some kind of order. Gangs have rules and once your in your stay in. Leave you die! This is the root of the problem. The kid who did all the killing has no home life, has no school due to COVID and withdrawn and he has no family life other than grandma who if she could tell us most likely was trying to give him rules to live by. W know the rest of the story. W need places to have fun and direction. I live in tampa florida , formerly a hot bed for baseball, steve Garvey, Lou pinella, wage Boggs, and the list goes on . Why no more? We're up and made baseball fields in our back yard, e went to the park and there were baseball Diamonds at everyone of them and kids playing on them. Almost every school has a Diamond but they are fenced in !!! No back fields at any of the parks but there is basketball but only 10 can play and the rest sit and watch waiting to play. With us skid shows up and immediately he goes on a team! Todays kids don't have that. Our heros were the stars of whatever sort e we're playing, theirs is the drug dealer in the community who has a wad of money, cool clothes, a hot car with great wheels, and women falling all over them! So what happens, here comes a new family of thugs. We need more places to play to occupy their minds, we need more after school activities, more guidance counselors and more schools that attract kids to go to. Sure we need more reading, righting, and rithmatic but for some it's boring so introduce more trade schools. Without this being a joke. E we need more plumbers, electricians and carpenters. Try and get one into your home and they are all out a month or two before they have time for you. Too much free money coming to them more to even then to work. Every fast food place has a sign out not for what on special but help wanted $15 an hour and they can't find workers for that kind of money, why too much free money. We need God in our lives, we need two parent homes, we need more activities for them to join in on and we need to make schools relevant to maintain their interest and give them a chance for the American dream.

05/27/22 11:58 AM

#11187

MM, I don't think you will get disagreement on the importance of a religious home and strong family upbringing. But here we are and that's a different problem to be solved. Right now we have the products of these dysfunctional families and it is proven time and time again that young people with Assault rifles are not using them for the protection of their families but rather to wipe out others. I'm in favor of a .38 caliber like Dennis (who was taught to respect guns and was an army officer in viet nam) had locked in the house for personal safety. Maybe a hunting rifle to be kept in a gun locker and stored for hunting season but beyond that there is no justification that can possibly be used to offset these horrific tragedies. I want you to explain to me why you think anyone should be able to go in and buy assault rifles. And don't give me the freedom argument because that works the same way for a woman's body and right to abortion as it does to say you are taking away someone's freedom if they can't buy an assault rifle.

05/27/22 02:33 PM

#11188

Certainly there is a comon theme of truth to what you all have said - kids need family and friends for support, love, and safe recreation. This takes me back to a post I made about the economic incentives we attach to home ownership and the indirect force it places on both paretns to work in order to qualify for a larger mortage and thus, a nicer neighborhood.

But there is a thread emerging among many (not all) of these young "shooters", and that seems to be "bullying".

Bullying has been around since the beginning of time. I expereincd it my neighborhood with one older neighbor. By the way, it was a neighborhood with many good guys, and me with a large front yard for us all to gather and play in. There were probably hundreds of touchdowns and thousands of home runs scored on that proprety in the 50's and 60's.

But bullying is so common today, there are even school "experts" trained to prevent it - - in some schools. But not nearly enough if I read the situation correctly. Two of my grandkids go to a school where the boys are so rude and the teachesr do nothing about it. This clearly is an area to focus more atttention to.

Never the less, as we see countries all over the world who have the clear correlation between lack of gun ownership and absnece of these shootings, it's hard for me to grasp why we can't see it for what it is. Switzerland is an intersting case.Almost everyone there does own a gun, but they are kept at the local armory for the owners to check out for taget practice at the local range or for hunting. Yes, I am certain that would never fly here, but the statistics don't lie. Canada, England, Switzerland, and most others simply have nowhere near the rate of gun homiciides as we do.

And finally, nobody can convince me that any old citizen should be allowed to posses a miitary "semi-automatic" weapon, and keep it in their home. I know all the gun restrictios in the world will not totaly wipe out the problem, but any reduction at all would be progress.

I beleive doing nothing to to limit access or to improve background checks is unacceptable.

05/27/22 04:42 PM

#11189

Janie, I have never advocated against common sense gun laws that attempt to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. We already have many such laws in place in every state in the nation. I would point out that the city of Chicago has the most restrictive gun laws of any state, but you would never know that based on the death count due to shootings there every weekend. .https://news.wttw.com/2022/03/14/24-people-shot-over-weekend-chicagoincluding-7-mass-shooting-sunday But who is addressng this carnage?

Which of the many types of semi-automatic rifles and guns with their varying range and velocity should be banned? Should there be a mandatory gun-buyback law passed as Austrailia has done? Trudeau is pushing for the same legislation in Canada and wants to include handguns as well. Should we go that far? Frankly with the respsonse of the governments in China, Canada and Australia to the pandemic the past two years, I am grateful that we have the 2nd Amendment, as the history of the world has proven that an armed citizenry is the greatest deterrent against tyranny. As we are now learning more about the tragedy in Texas, it appears that the first tresponders arrived within 3 minutes of the gunman entering the unlocked school, initially engaged the shooter, but then after they were injured, they backed off and set up a perimeter and waited 30-40 minutes for back-up to arrive. Could this scenario have played out differently? We will never know. In the end, I refer back to addressing the root causes of our national ills, put forth in my previous post as the best way to restore the brokenness in our society.

05/27/22 05:42 PM

#11190

John Jackson

Jim and MM, this isn’t difficult - we are a nation infatuated with guns and we pay the price. No other advanced nation comes close to the level of gun violence we have in this country:.

I’ve never understood the gun mindset but if you feel better if you have a gun with a reasonable capacity (six rounds?) in your home for self defense, then I’m OK with that. But it shouldn’t be an assault rifle and the gun should be licensed - are you opposed to drivers’ licenses that ensure that you know how to handle a car or mandatory car insurance in case you hurt someone with your driving?

05/27/22 08:23 PM

#11191

Can someone please provide an explanation for the gun violence and killings in some of our major cities who have the strictest gun regulations?

05/28/22 02:23 AM

#11192

Maybe they need to be stricter.

05/28/22 02:56 AM

#11193

I just heard something I didn't know from today's opening speeches at a convention in Houston. Spoken first by the esteemed Junior US Senator from Texas, and later repeatd by an ex-President (who was voted out of offfice) - both of whom were brave enough to appear on behalf of that great American institution, the (corrupt and nearly bankrupt) NRA. They both confirmed this wise observation;

"The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun."

Ahh, brilliant! But it leaves me with one little question - what if the good guys show up too late?

---------------

Note: It is extremely gratifying to realize that while the ex-President and other speakers spoke today at the convention - (an exhibit with 13 acres of gun displays) - firearms were forbidden in the auditorium.

05/28/22 03:06 AM

#11194

I would loove to pose three questions for these gun lobby politicians;

1) How much lobby money had they received from those 19 dead children in Uvalde?

2) How much lobby money have they received from the deceased children's parents?

3) How much lobby money have they received from the NRA?

05/28/22 08:08 AM

#11195

Michael McLeod

MM: Here’s a fact check you requested. I have more if needed. They are all in line with this one, which is from an extensive piece in today's ny times challenging some of the distortions that were paraded at the nra convention yesterday. Bear in mind there are many such distortions out there, and they are being promulgated by gun manufacturers and the politicians they buy off..Please - and I have said this before - consider the source of information, and whether it's being promulgated by organizations with money at stake

WHAT WAS SAID

“Gun bans do not work. Look at Chicago. If they worked, Chicago wouldn’t be the murder hellhole that it has been for far too long.” — Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas

This is misleading. Opponents of firearm restrictions frequently cite Chicago as a case study of why tough gun laws do little to prevent homicides. This argument, however, relies on faulty assumptions about the city’s gun laws and gun violence.

There were more gun murders in Chicago than in any other U.S. city in 2020, fueling the perception that it is the gun violence capital of the country. But Chicago is also the third-largest city in the country. Adjusted by population, the gun homicide rate was 25.2 per 100,000, the 26th highest in the country in 2020, according to data compiled by the gun control advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety.

The three cities with the highest gun homicide rates — Jackson, Miss.; Gary, Ind.; and St. Louis — had rates double that of Chicago’s or more. All are in states with more permissive gun laws than Illinois.

Chicago’s reputation for having the strictest gun control measures in the country is outdated. Mr. Cruz cited the city’s handgun ban — without noting that the Supreme Court nullified the ban in 2010. An appeals court also struck down a ban on carrying concealed weapons in Illinois in 2012, and the state began allowing possession of concealed guns in 2013 as part of the court decision.

Today, Illinois has tougher restrictions than most states, but it does not lead the pack, ranking No. 6 in Everytown’s assessment of the strength of state gun control laws, and No. 8 in a report card released by the Giffords Law Center, another gun control group. Conversely, the state ranked No. 41 in an assessment on gun rights from the libertarian Cato Institute.

05/28/22 09:30 AM

#11196

Mary Clare Hummer (Bauer)

Thanks Mike, but somehow it is hard to get past the numbers I see....218 have been killed in Chicago so far this year....does not include self-defense killings & last year there were 797 killed up 25 from the year before. Each life matters, but you could legislate away every gun & if the root causes are not addressed, you are still left with a society that does not value human life & for me that is where our nation needs to have the discussion. I will just add one thing that concerns me & others....the real worry is the stated desire from many is that only the government, the military & the police should be permitted under the 2nd Amendment to own firearms & that gun confiscation is the only way to achieve that goal. This would be disastrous for a freedom loving people. Signing off for now as I am sitting in Watterson's gym to watch my granddaughter & grandson graduate from our alma mater!

05/28/22 10:07 AM

#11197

So easy to say, "I have never advocated against common sense gun laws that attempt to keep guns out of the hands of criminals." Every time we walk into that voting booth and put our mark beside the name of one of these people who line their pockets with $$ from the NRA and go to work with absolutely no intention of trying to fix our gun problem, we are complicit in the carnage. No amount of wishing and praying and ranting and raving is going to take us back to the happy days of the 50's and white picket fences and Ward and June. WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!! They are called assault weapons. Dave has said it clearly. They are designed for mass killings quicker than any "armed" citizen could even pull the gun out. Sure, there were mistakes in how this last situation was handled and yes, the killer had family problems. But the problem for those beautiful 19 children was the gun. Take a stand. Work towards a solution.

05/28/22 11:41 AM

#11198

Michael McLeod

I like thinking of kids at WHS graduating in that good old gym of ours so thanks for that image, MM.

05/28/22 01:00 PM

#11199

Mike, I like your per capita statistics. It gives some perspective. But of course a death is a death, a shooting is a shooting. What we are missing here might be that individual states have different regulations and Chicago is a 1/2 hour from Indiana where gun laws are permissive. We don't have borders or border crossings, allowing one to easily buy a gun in a state with permissive rules and take it to another more restrictive state.

05/28/22 01:16 PM

#11200

Mike...hope you can access this video...I think it will elicit some fond memories🙂
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0a5VNnnnjOaJnKfjTdDxzxwMA#Columbus_-_Beechwold

05/28/22 02:25 PM

#11201

Mary Margaret,

You are repeating the same false argument as is being made over and over again by the pro-gun Right. We (conservative, supporters of the 2nd amendment) are NOT advocating total government control over all guns, any more than we are making a case for alll drugs to be banned by the FDA. You keep repearting that same incorrect point over and over again.

We are advocating the banning of this one single style of rapid fire "semi-automatic" gun, designed for one sole purpose, rapid killing of multiple human beings. If you are so afraid of total government control, please tell me why a 13 year-old is forbidden to drive a car, or why I am not free to drive left of center if I please.

* I buy, and agree with all your social and moral points - the breakup of the famiy, the lack of moral leadership, mental halth issues, etc, etc, etc. (and now my argument about bullying has re-surfaced)

But on this one point you are making an argument that really doesn't exist. If you are so afraid of Government gun controls then please tell me whay you are not actively advocating the repeal of the 1934 National Firearms Act that placed a crippling tax on private ownership and transfer of machine guns and "short barreled" guns (read; sawed-off shotguns so popular with the "Mobs") - effectively eliminating private ownership?

I would like to ask you a direct question; Please tell me exactly who's rights are denied by the baning of this one type of weapon?

Not rifles, not shotguns, not pistols or even crossbows - but this one type of weapon? Tell us who?

05/28/22 02:30 PM

#11202

James Hamilton, M. D.

Folks,

I think we all agree that we would like to see guns (and other dangerous weapons) kept out of the hands of criminals, the mentally unbalanced and others who would be likely to misuse them. Of course, in a free society, this is not an easy task.

Laws are only effective if obeyed and enforced. In our country laws can be made on all levels from the national down to the local.

It is unfortunate that today in America there are those who do not want to, or are told not to, arrest some criminals (law breakers), will release arrested criminals without bond, will not prosecute criminal behavior, will not give reasonable punishment to convicted criminals and call for the defunding of our front line defense - the police.

Additionally, our border is not secured so that illegal immigration is rampant which contributes to allowing drugs, disease, weapons and terrorists to obtain access to our country.

In short, laws are not being taken seriously, law enforcement officers cannot function in the way they are supposed to, and criminals feel emboldened to break many laws.

And now everytime there is a horrible tragedy such as a school or other mass shooting, the first thing that people call for are more laws.

We need a lot more that that.

Jim

05/28/22 05:03 PM

#11203

John Jackson

Jim, see the graph on my post 11190 - lots of other countires have figured this out - why can't we? We're not the only country in the world that has a criminal element or a large immigrant population. And, MM, I suspect more Americans identify as "religious"' than in most other advanced nations.

The difference is our insanely permissive gun laws.

05/28/22 05:21 PM

#11204