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04/29/22 01:29 PM #11053    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

From Jonathan Turley:  

"With Musk's purchase of Twitter, politicians and pundits have moved from corporate censorship to calls for good old-fashioned censorship. Hillary Clinton told her European allies to pass a massive censorship law to “bolster global democracy before it’s too late.”
 
"Homeland Security already has a public relations staff that answers questions as well as dozens of offices that release public information. Yet, Secretary Mayorkas wants an actual Disinformation Governance Board to put an imprimatur on what is true and what is false. ...The entrance of the Executive Branch into such supervision of facts would seem a matter for legislative debate on the use of public funds for such a purpose. ...Citizens can now choose between lies and truth under the watchful eye of the Biden Administration's Disinformation Governance Board. It is not clear what the consequences may be to those who run afoul of the DGB and the MSM, but one should choose wisely. ..Democrats are falling back to their final line of defense...and are finally being honest about their past use of corporate surrogates. They are now calling for outright state censorship.' 
 
Freedom now has become synonymous with tyranny as democracy embraces censorship.  What can possibly go wrong?  Sounds eerily similar to the task of the "Ministry of Truth" in Orwell's "1984".

04/30/22 09:40 AM #11054    

 

Michael McLeod

mm: I think this must be what he is referring to. It sounds like quite the opposite of how he is characterizing it. And why he's picking on Hillary about it I'll never know. Anyway this is an objective account of what he seems to be mischaracterizing grossly.

We are certainly living in a "How many fingers am I holding up? " world. Sometimes it's actually hard to tell. Plus I was never good at math.

 

The European Union reached a deal on Saturday on landmark legislation that would force Facebook, YouTube and other internet services to combat misinformation, disclose how their services amplify divisive content and stop targeting online ads based on a person’s ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

The law, called the Digital Services Act, is intended to address social media’s societal harms by requiring companies to more aggressively police their platforms for illicit content or risk billions of dollars in fines. Tech companies would be compelled to set up new policies and procedures to remove flagged hate speech, terrorist propaganda and other material defined as illegal by countries within the European Union.

The law aims to end an era of self-regulation in which tech companies set their own policies about what content could stay up or be taken down. It stands out from other regulatory attempts by addressing online speech, an area that is largely off limits in the United States because of First Amendment protections. Google, which owns YouTube, and Meta, the owner of Facebook and Instagram, would face yearly audits for “systemic risks” linked to their businesses, while Amazon would confront new rules to stop the sale of illegal products.

The Digital Services Act is part of a one-two punch by the European Union to address the societal and economic effects of the tech giants. Last month, the 27-nation bloc agreed to a different sweeping law, the Digital Markets Act, to counter what regulators see as anticompetitive behavior by the biggest tech firms, including their grip over app stores, online advertising and internet shopping.


04/30/22 11:41 AM #11055    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike....Turley was mostly referring to the Biden Administration HHS forming a "Disinformation Governance Board".  Biden wants to "police" free speech which is the first of all citizen rights as it forms the basis of all other rights.  The EU is on a similar path to restrict speech.  
 


04/30/22 12:35 PM #11056    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Folks,

Good example of Free Speech: this Message Forum! 

The DGB (if it ever happens and I hope it doesn't) better not mess with us '66 Eagles!

Jim


04/30/22 01:09 PM #11057    

 

David Mitchell

Mary Margaret,

I'm no more in favor of such an "agency" than anyone else is, but the social media issue is new and different - and unique. And we've now heard testimony as to how Facebook deliberately manipulated their power to provoke their audience. 

How far then should we stretch the boundaries of "free speech"? I know free speech does not incude lying or slandering? We have laws against that.

But what about deliberately misleading (especailly for profit or political gain)? Isn't that lying? Such as with Marjorie Taylor Green or Alex Jones? (He's raised $500 million since he was sued)

Are we to say nothing in response to "The (Catholic) Church is being guided by Satan"?

Or that the shooting of all those children at Sandy Hook "was staged and never happened"?

Or that Democrats are running a secret child trafficking network, and eating babies?

Where should we draw the line?

--------------

Human trafficking sites ot follow and maybe even contribute to;

Exocdus Cry (a Christian org. in San Fran - one of the most informative sites on the topic. They track all kinds of trafficking. See their film "Nefarious" - heartbreaking!  (I follow this one most often)

World Without Exploitation - Run by a group of female attorneys in NYC - mostly focusing specifically on sex trafficking of all ages 

Destiny's Child - focus on child trafficking


04/30/22 01:30 PM #11058    

 

John Jackson

Once again, the right is being more than a little disingenous (to use one of MM's favorite words) in its characterization of this.  The primary thrust of this DHS board is to counter mis-information provided to Spanish-speaking would-be immigrants by human traffickers and Russian misinformation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/29/disinformation-governance-board-dhs/

A key quote from this article (and note the reference to a similar effort undertaken by the Trump Administration):

“One could certainly object … about the effort going too far, potentially chilling speech — just as one can worry today about the federal government getting into the truth-deciding business. But the stated purpose of the effort was quite different from how it was cast by its opponents. And today, there is no real evidence that DHS plans to crack down on ordinary citizens spreading misinformation online, for instance. The two specific examples cited thus far involve human smugglers and Russians.

It’s also worth noting that the Trump administration’s DHS undertook similar efforts; in 2018 it created the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which dealt extensively with the spread of misinformation online — including both foreign interference in elections and the domestic spread of coronavirus misinformation. White House press secretary Jen Psaki said the new board would be “a continuation of the work of the former president” when asked about it Friday.”


04/30/22 02:11 PM #11059    

 

Michael McLeod

I just think it's quite a reach to characterize an international effort to protect people from propaganda as biden wanting to shut down free speech. You wanna talk free speech? How about Florida's governor telling Mickey Mouse to shut the hell up?  Where's the outrage, Mouseketeers? 


04/30/22 06:40 PM #11060    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike, John, Dave.....you guys certainly keep me busy.  Sorry to all forum readers who are bored by these discussions, but I couldn't address my concerns of each of the guys adequately without referring to an outside source, and so I will just offer up the following article and then will take a hiatus to allow for other topics of interest to our friends. 

American society is in the midst of a vigorous meta-debate concerning censorship, free speech, and democracy.  This debate is, at times, difficult to follow because of the apparent contradictions and double-speak that it produces. It may be useful to make some distinctions that are inherent in this discourse. 

The first such distinction is in what different parties mean by the term "democracy."  There is a progressive faction that insists that, for example, social media suppression of certain views is essential to "our democracy."  Free speech is therefore a potential threat to democracy, a counter-intuitive claim.

The progressive view of democracy is that people are granted the ability to choose among limited possibilities that are acceptable to globalist elites.  The concept is familiar to parents who influence their children's behavior by providing only acceptable choices: rather than asking if the child wants to brush his teeth, the parents ask if the child wants to use a blue or red toothbrush.  The progressive uses the same tactic: do you want increased immigration from lax border enforcement or reform of legal immigration laws, or both?  Do you want to eliminate fossil fuels with carbon taxes or subsidies for renewable energy or both?  And so on.  "Democracy" in this context is the illusion of choice provided by choosing among the options acceptable to elite opinion.

When progressives claim that free speech is a threat to "democracy," they are not contradicting themselves; they are merely being selective about what they mean by "democracy." 

The classical liberal view is that democracy allows the people to choose among all available alternatives, not merely those preselected and acceptable to elite opinion. Dispute about this point is why progressives accommodate outright censorship. They do not want the people to be informed of possibilities and alternatives other than those favorable to a progressive agenda. For example, elite opinion wants everyone to be vaccinated against COVID, therefore any information that might raise questions that are inconvenient to this goal must be suppressed, whether it is legitimate questioning of vaccine efficacy and side effects, the availability of treatments, the virulence of variants, etc.

In order to understand the role of censorship and misinformation in public discourse, it may be useful to make a simple distinction between facts and truth.  In simple terms, facts are observed, and truths are inferred, or alternatively, facts are evidence, and truth is the conclusion drawn from the evidence.

This relationship between facts and truth is found throughout science and human progress.  For example, Tycho Brahe made detailed observations of the motions of planets — i.e., recorded the facts — and Johannes Kepler used these data to derive the laws of planetary motion — i.e., the truth.  The key characteristics of facts and truths in this simple model are that facts must be accurate descriptions of observations, and truths must represent the realities that facts illustrate.

This schematic distinction between facts and truths illustrates the difference in worldview between progressives and classical liberals.  One practical example of this principle is that crime rates before and after the enactment of bail reform laws and the election of progressive prosecutors are facts, and the people are quite qualified to assess those facts and determine if the theories of experts and elite ideologues are valid. 

One of the premises, as well as benefits, of true democracy is that the people possess collective wisdom, reason, and common sense to derive truths from facts if those facts are accurately presented, particularly with regard to political questions.  The progressive view is that only experts or self-styled elites are qualified to do so.  This latter view results in the claim that any proffered facts or inferences drawn from them are "misinformation" if they conflict with progressive opinion.

Progressives try to control discourse in various ways.  One is by limiting dissemination of facts so that the people are not tempted to draw disfavored conclusions from them.  This tactic is commonly seen in crime reports, where the race of the suspect is known but not reported.  It was also seen in Pfizer's attempt to prohibit inspection of clinical data regarding COVID vaccines for 75 years and social media companies squelching any COVID-related discussion of ivermectin.  The result of this tactic is the censorship found on Twitter and Facebook. 

Another progressive tactic is to explicitly limit analysis of facts to selected experts or to permit journalists to substitute subjective determinations of what they think is the truth for objective information.  The evening news was once fifteen minutes long and consisted mostly of facts, without the presumptuous need to have someone explain what those facts meant.  The role of journalists was understood to be to report facts accurately and without bias, and opinions were clearly identified as such.  "Fake but accurate" was an oxymoron.  Favored opinions are now presented as truths, and anything that questions or contradicts them is derided as misinformation and "dangerous."  The goal of this tactic is to create doubt in people's ability to evaluate, discuss, and draw conclusions from the facts so that the only opinions open for discussion are "approved" opinions.

A third tactic of progressive information management is to hinder popular evaluation and discussion of facts by resorting to euphemisms and neologisms.  Thus, "facts" are presented in language such as "birthing person," "mostly peaceful," "Putin's price hike," etc.  The implication of such language is that it is irrefutable that men can give birth, that it is Putin to blame for inflation, etc.  These are opinions presented as facts, with the intent to inhibit, by altering basic assumptions, people's ability to objectively analyze and draw independent conclusions from them.

The above observations permit understanding of the seemingly dystopian and surreal discussions around misinformation, censorship, and democracy.  In a nutshell, elite opinion believes that ordinary people should not be trusted to make an independent evaluation of facts in order to ascertain truths, nor make informed, independent decisions about their individual lives and the societies in which they live.  Furthermore, the elites believe that if people are allowed to evaluate and discern among all possible alternatives regarding a particular issue, they might make the wrong decisions, and therefore the choices with which they are presented must be limited to a narrow, approved range.  This is not democracy; it is paternalistic tyranny, and it is stupid and destructive. 

This left-wing enterprise is currently vigorous and pernicious.  It manifests in such things as the New York Times claiming that James O'Keefe is not a legitimate journalist, or social media platforms deciding among themselves what are "approved news sources" or "independent fact-checkers."

The validity of facts does not depend on who reports them.  This leftist enterprise can and will do a significant amount of damage, but it is destined to fail in the long run, because the truth is not a matter of opinion, and the people are better judges of their own interests and welfare than are tech oligarchs and cherry-picked experts.  The reality of the world, ignored at one's own peril, is that facts are stubborn things, and as Shakespeare observed in The Merchant of Venice, "the truth will out."


04/30/22 09:25 PM #11061    

 

Anne Devaney (Wilcheck)

Government truth squad are you kidding me?


05/01/22 01:20 AM #11062    

 

David Mitchell

I forgot to add my closing remark on post #11057 regarding "human trafficking"- (sorry, 74 year-old brain turning to mush)

I meant to add the thought that none of those well established sites (see below) connect any form of human trafficking with the Democratic party - or any political party, for that matter. Such accusations are obviously false and dangerous. 

Some of the accusations from the crazy Q'non, far-right people, advocating this "secret cabal" should at least be subject to more accountability. Should they be free to spead such lies? I find it sickening that anyone could defend their "right to free speech". 

Doesn't this whole discussion come down to a question of accountability?                                         (I guess not if your name is Michael Gabelman and you live in Wisconsin - lol)

 

Human trafficking has been around forever, and goes on world-wide (including here in Beaufort County). It is not some recent phenomenan. It is obviously more prevalent in areas of poverty and social instability. Lately, sources in my Marked Men For Christ group in Poland are claiming that a wave of "traffickers" have descended on the borders of Poland and Eastern Europe like locusts, what with all the displacement of the Ukrainian women with children to feed (and no money). International news sources confirm this. 

I may have shown this video before, but it's worth watching again. And again, check out "Exodus Cry", "World Without Exploitation", and "Destiny's Child". They accept contributions (hint, hint)

(NOTE: It is not known how many of these "traffickers" are Democrats)


05/01/22 08:56 AM #11063    

 

John Jackson

I agree with Anne – a government truth squad is preposterous.  And if MM’s interpretation of the function of this agency is true, count me in as an opponent.

But the whole story of an agency within DHS “deciding what is true and what is false” is incredibly bogus.  If its function is to pass judgment on a broad range of issues (other than exploitation of immigrants by human traffickers or Russian misinformation designed to de-stabilize our government) then surely there are (or will be) examples of controversial “truths” put forth by this board.

And, even assuming MM’s interpretation is true (which it emphatically is not), who cares?  What’s the enforcement mechanism – what’s to prevent Americans from believing whatever the hell they want?  And why would the Dems want to establish such an Orwellian body when they know it would only be used against them (in spades) when the pendulum swings back and the Republicans regain power?

So I’m waiting for MM or others to come forward with controversial findings of “truth” from this body and until I see those examples I maintain this whole story is laughable and just another cynical attempt by those on the right to rile up their base.

 


05/01/22 11:41 AM #11064    

 

Michael McLeod

Really interesting to watch the info-war sleight of hand at work in that diatribe that mm posted. One small example: using the word "elite" to describe anyone among the thousands of scientists and millions of sensible individuals who believed it was a good idea to be innoculated against Covid. You use enough of those small, seemingly insignificant descriptors and it's a big percentage of triggering a buy-in on your argument, especially among readers who are inclined to agree with you at the outset.

Then again maybe the person who write that sincerely believes it. Either way it's creepy as hell.

All I can say is I wish my friend still suffering with long-haul covid symptoms had been more "elite."


05/02/22 12:30 PM #11065    

 

Michael McLeod

Just saw an advertisement from a taco place down here advertising an on-line cinco de mayo celebration.

Somehow I'm not feelin' it. 


05/02/22 03:30 PM #11066    

 

Mark Schweickart

Hey guys,

Here's another visual distraction for you to appreciate. Now that's some street art, wouldn't you say?


05/03/22 11:03 AM #11067    

 

Michael McLeod

wow. love to know what the materials are to create that ocular effect. the depth and precision of that reflection is remarkable (assuming that's what it is - a reflection.)


05/03/22 04:41 PM #11068    

 

Donna Kelley (Velazquez)

Stunning artwork, Mark.  Thanks for sharing.  You might want to take a look at the mural art of Jorge Gerada-Rodriguez, a Cuban-American artist friend who lives in Spain.

https://www.gerada-art.com/

https://streetartmankind.org/artists/jorge-rodriguez-gerada/


05/03/22 05:03 PM #11069    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mark and Donna, 

Unbelievable, realistic artwork! Sure tops the graffiti art I see under bridges and on the sides of railroad cars. 

Jim


05/03/22 07:18 PM #11070    

 

Mark Schweickart

Donna,

Very cool artwork. Thanks for sharing, although I have to wonder how one is supposed to appreciate the ones labeled "horizontal" and "terrestrial," since it seems one would need to be in a plane to appreciate them.Nonetheless, quite amazing pieces. 

Also, for some reason I cannot get the second link you provided to connect. I just get an error message. Is it me, or did you maybe misspell something in this link?

 


05/04/22 03:56 AM #11071    

 

Donna Kelley (Velazquez)

https://streetartmankind.org/artists/jorge-rodriguez-gerada/

I had copy/pasted the link, Mark so instead of a typo I would probably mark it up to my "stellar" techy prowess.wink  I hope it can be opened this time.

Most of Jorge's work is done in large cities where there are many surrounding highrise buildings from which the ground art can be seen. 

Jim, unfortunately we also have a lot of the graffiti that you refer to.

 


05/04/22 03:32 PM #11072    

 

Mark Schweickart

Hey Donna – I am still getting the message "504 Gateway Time-Out" with this link. I think this means that the server at my end is not getting a response from some other server at the other end, so it times-out. I don't know if this is a problem at my end or at the Jorge Rodriquiz Gerada website end. I'm not much of a techie either.

Is anyone else having a problem getting this link to open?


05/04/22 04:53 PM #11073    

 

David Mitchell

Pretty amazing Donna

 


05/04/22 06:10 PM #11074    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mark.....I was getting the same error code.....I just now copied the link and pasted it into my browser and was directed right to the website.  Amazing art work!!

 New note.....I decided to try the link again after I copied and pasted the link and got the error code once again.  I have tried it several more times and sometime I get to the website and other times I get the error code.  Keep trying!  Perseverance wins the day! 


05/04/22 08:18 PM #11075    

 

Anne Devaney (Wilcheck)

Boy the lefties have their underwear in bunch over the leaked Supreme Court documents 


05/05/22 10:41 AM #11076    

 

Mark Schweickart

Thanks MM, I tried again today and it worked fine. And thanks Donna, for sharing this. Terrific murals!


05/05/22 02:20 PM #11077    

 

Michael McLeod

You read a sentence like this and you realize as a human being you can't fathom or absorb the horror of it. Twenty thousand people murdered. I think that's the proper word for it. That and "inhuman." 

 

In weeks of fierce fighting, much of the city of more than 400,000 was leveled, and Ukrainian officials said more than 20,000 civilians were killed.


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