Message Forum

Welcome to the Watterson High School Message Forum.

The message forum is an ongoing dialogue between classmates. There are no items, topics, subtopics, etc.

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Message" button to add your entry to the forum.


 
go to bottom 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page      

07/27/21 11:28 PM #9708    

 

John Jackson

Jim, with all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.  If I’m not mistaken you’re an internist and I sincerely applaud you for choosing that specialty - from my understanding of our health care system we definitely need more GP’s and internists rather than high-priced specialists.

But my own sister Liz is an MD/psychiatrist (and a Dominican sister from the same order who taught us at Watterson) who has practiced in various capacities for 40 years, including the VA for nearly 20 years.  I would think her psychiatric training renders her much better able than you  to render an opinion on Biden’s competence to serve, and I can tell you that she does not agree with your assessment.   I can also assure you that if asked to render an opinion on Trump she would, without hesitation, tell you that he is one sick puppy.

My brother-in-law is an anesthesiologist (probably about as relevant as your training) and he is appalled at Trump.  And my son-in-law (a physical medicine and rehab doctor in his late 30’s) in no way shares your view.

Having said all this, I don’t think it’s all that helpful for any of us to make arguments based on whether this or that doctor shares our view.  I just want to call into question your tactic of implying that your medical training in any way validates your political views – and, even though you deny it, when you employ all the medical jargon that you do in your posts, you’re definitely playing the doctor card.


07/28/21 11:47 AM #9709    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

John,

Your comments have now become insulting and offensive - of course, "with all due respect". 

Interestingly, you berate my comments because I am a physician even though I made it clear that I was not assigning any specific diagnosis to President Biden since I have never examined him. I explained that process in my Post #9704. If I had seen him as a patient it would have been unethical (patient-doctor confidentiality) to do so unless it was demanded by the law. It does not take a medical degree for one to see that President Biden struggles with some answers and statements but I never would presume to establish a definitive diagnosis in his case.

Your family members with medical/psychiatric backgrounds (talk about playing the "doctor cards")  may choose to give a more insightful view of a public figure's mental status than I am capable (or willing) to do. You gave the example that Liz would call President Trump "one sick puppy". (By the way, I cannot find that specific diagnosis mentioned in the DSM-5 of the American Psychiatric Association.) Perhaps in her career she may have had a professional appointment with President Trump. I do not know but I doubt it since making such a statement would, perhaps, be unethical and I highly suspect she is a very ethical doctor and person.

Again, all I was asking is if you believe that President Biden should submit to an examination such as the one that President Trump took. 

Oh, and I don't think any of those exams include how many push-ups he is capable of doing.

Jim

 

 


07/28/21 11:56 AM #9710    

 

Michael McLeod

John: With all due respect, gonna have to side with the doc on this one. I think subjecting Biden to a mental examination and an accompanying questionairre is absolutely called for.

I'm no specialist in mental health issues myself. It's been a long time since I spent those years at the institute, and of course during most of my stay there I was heavily sedated.  But I'd like to suggest a few questions just the same.

Here's my first one:

"Mr. President, Do you think we could cure the covid virus by introducing light to internal organs, or perhaps injecting people with Clorox?"

Second question: "What country is the "prince of whales" from?"

Third question (tricky one; will demonstrate quick thinking and hand-eye coordination): "Using this white board, can you please demonstrate how weather forecasters use magic markers to track the path of a hurricane?"

Now, in our fourth question, we're really gonna see if we can trip ol' sleepy Joe up with a geographic two-parter: First: "How much does a Greenland cost?" Second: "If we put a wall across Colorado to keep foreigners out, where would be the best place to put it?"

And finally, an American history zinger: "Please name the airports that the patriots captured during the Revolutionary War."

 

I say if he can handle those doozies, we have a president we can be proud of.

Otherwise, no. Not hardly.

 


07/28/21 03:21 PM #9711    

 

Mark Schweickart

Mike -- where's that rimshot when you need it! Good memory of bad times funnily stated.


07/28/21 04:36 PM #9712    

Joseph Gentilini

In the conversation regarding Biden and trump - I don't think it takes a medicatl or psychiatric exam, nor to be trained as a physician or psychiatrist to realize that trump is seriously mentally ill.  On that point, I agree with John Jackson.


07/28/21 09:01 PM #9713    

 

David Mitchell

I dunno, what do you call a guy who has spent his entire adult life, cheating, lying, chiseling, defaulting, draft-dodging, suing (over 4,000 times), insulting dead soldiers, and bragging about how brave he is because of how many "dangerous vaginas" he's been in? 

Is there a medical term for that?

Would " fun-loving, all-American guy" work?

 


07/28/21 09:51 PM #9714    

 

David Mitchell

On a more serious side, I was deeply saddened for my country last night when I listened to the comments by Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham about the first day tesitimony of those 4 Capital policemen.  

What a shameful disgusting spin job they both put on these four men. How dare they redirect blame onto them for defending the Capital from a brutal attack by a bunch of wild hooligans?

What ever became of the "Party of Law and Order"?  

(Goldwater, Nixon, and Reagan must be rolling over in their graves about now). 

 

These people and these childish cowards Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and their gang of circus clowns have absolutely no shame. Some of the officers are receiving death threats and being called "scum" by right-wing morons who don't deserve to walk the streets free. 

 

I'm feeling old tonight. How old?

So old I can remember way back when my Republican Party stood for something decent? 


07/28/21 11:05 PM #9715    

 

John Jackson

Jim, when I tempered my previous comments by saying “I don’t think it’s all that helpful for any of us to make arguments based on whether this or that doctor shares our view”  I also meant for that comment to apply to me.  I mentioned three doctors opposing your view and I’d be surprised if you can't recruit other doctors to bolster your case.  But I just think it’s misleading to claim you have some special insight based on the limited  training doctors typically get in their psychiatric rotation in med school.  I only mentioned the three doctors I know very well, not because their views are definitive, but because I wanted to dispel the notion that your view is in any way typical of doctors in general.

 

 


07/28/21 11:18 PM #9716    

 

John Jackson

OK, I need to change the subject, lest you all think (quite accurately) that I do nothing more these days than fixate on the sorry state that our nation's political dialog and civic life have fallen into.
 
30 years ago while driving to Columbus late at night with wife Carol and young kids asleep in the back seat I tuned in to public radio (KDKA) in Pittsburgh and blundered upon a full length broadcast of the CD of "Granuaile", a 45 minute long song cycle describing the life of Grace O'Malley, Ireland's 16th century "pirate queen" described in this National Geographic story today:
 
The music was written by Irish composer Shaun Davey to be sung by his wife Rita Connolly backed by a full orchestra.   It took me a year or two (this was the 1990's) to track down the recording which was made at Windmill Lane Studios in Dublin (of U2 fame). The full CD is available on Amazon (I'm surprised because it's so obscure) -  https://www.amazon.com/Granuaile-Shaun-Davey/dp/B000001JAW/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=granuaile&qid=1627523239&sr=8-4
 
I'm a fool for high clear Irish female voices and Rita Connolloy has one of the most glorious voices in all of Irish music. Here's a link to the full album on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhg36MNOFZo
 
I'm sure a lot of the details of Grace O'Malley's life are apocryphal (this was, after all, 16th centrury Ireland, not long after St. Patrick banished all the snakes into the sea) but the music is wonderful.
 
You can probably also find some tracks on I-tunes if you search for Shaun Davey or Rita Connolly but don't get fooled by the soundtrack for a  Broadway play called The Pirate Queen - the music is completely different.
 

07/29/21 09:19 AM #9717    

 

Michael McLeod

wow, jj. That's quite a rumination. I'll check it out.

In the meantime I did want to point out something fabulous: The James Webb is going to rock this world -- via its unprecedented view of other worlds.

Did not realize it's finally going up, fingers crossed, in Nov.

From my layman's pov it's going to revolutionize our picture of planets outside our solar system, and relatively soon.

Seems darkly apt that at a time when this world can be so disillusioning we'll be getting a glimpse of others in much better detail than before.

Just wish they weren't all so damn far away,  I'm so intrigued by the possibility that we escape the earth as a species and navigate the universe, though practically speaking it looks absolutely unattainable.

The good thing is that when our descendants have to leave the planet they will know where to go - we'll have discovered destinations, habitable planets - before they set out, likely on journeys that will take generations.

 


07/29/21 09:32 AM #9718    

 

Janie Albright (Blank)

Excellent commentary on where rights and freedom intersect. Also one on love thy neighbor. 
 

https://www.ncronline.org/news/coronavirus/where-i-stand/masks-vaccines-and-rights-land-freedom-and-liberty

https://www.ncronline.org/news/coronavirus/catholics-should-love-their-neighbor-getting-vaccinated


07/29/21 10:49 AM #9719    

 

Michael McLeod

Nothing but respect for these two. Plus I'm a sucker for Cherry Garcia.

 

By Bennett Cohen and Jerry Greenfield

Mr. Cohen and Mr. Greenfield founded Ben & Jerry’s Homemade Holdings in 1978.

We are the founders of Ben & Jerry’s. We are also proud Jews. It’s part of who we are and how we’ve identified ourselves for our whole lives. As our company began to expand internationally, Israel was one of our first overseas markets. We were then, and remain today, supporters of the State of Israel.

But it’s possible to support Israel and oppose some of its policies, just as we’ve opposed policies of the U.S. government. As such, we unequivocally support the decision of the company to end business in the occupied territories, which a majority of the international community, including the United Nations, has deemed an illegal occupation.

While we no longer have any operational control of the company we founded in 1978, we’re proud of its action and believe it is on the right side of history. In our view, ending the sales of ice cream in the occupied territories is one of the most important decisions the company has made in its 43-year history. It was especially brave of the company. Even though it undoubtedly knew that the response would be swift and powerful, Ben & Jerry’s took the step to align its business and operations with its progressive values.

That we support the company’s decision is not a contradiction nor is it anti-Semitic. In fact, we believe this act can and should be seen as advancing the concepts of justice and human rights, core tenets of Judaism.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

Ben & Jerry’s is a company that advocates peace. It has long called on Congress to reduce the U.S. military budget. Ben & Jerry’s opposed the Persian Gulf war of 1991. But it wasn’t just talk. One of our very first social-mission initiatives, in 1988, was to introduce the Peace Pop. It was part of an effort to promote the idea of redirecting 1 percent of national defense budgets around the world to fund peace-promoting activities. We see the company’s recent action as part of a similar trajectory — not as anti-Israel, but as part of a long history of being pro-peace.

In its statement, the company drew a contrast between the democratic territory of Israel and the territories Israel occupies. The decision to halt sales outside Israel’s democratic borders is not a boycott of Israel. The Ben & Jerry’s statement did not endorse the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.

The company’s stated decision to more fully align its operations with its values is not a rejection of Israel. It is a rejection of Israeli policy, which perpetuates an illegal occupation that is a barrier to peace and violates the basic human rights of the Palestinian people who live under the occupation. As Jewish supporters of the State of Israel, we fundamentally reject the notion that it is anti-Semitic to question the policies of the State of Israel.

When we left the helm of the company, we signed a unique governance structure in the acquisition agreement with Unilever back in 2000. That structure is the magic behind both Ben & Jerry’s continued independence and its success. As part of the agreement, the company retained an independent board of directors with a responsibility to protect the company’s essential brand integrity and to pursue its social mission.

We believe business is among the most powerful entities in society. We believe that companies have a responsibility to use their power and influence to advance the wider common good. Over the years, we’ve also come to believe that there is a spiritual aspect to business, just as there is to the lives of individuals. As you give, you receive. We hope that for Ben & Jerry’s, that is at the heart of the business. To us, that’s what this decision represents, and that is why we are proud that 43 years after starting an ice cream shop in a dilapidated gas station in Burlington, Vt., our names are still on the package.


07/29/21 02:40 PM #9720    

 

Michael McLeod

thanks for posting janie. the sistah speaks the truth


07/29/21 03:40 PM #9721    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

The COVID-19 virus is .1 micron in size and as such it is entirely too small for any type of mask save for, perhaps an N95 mask, to block the viral particles from exiting or from entering.  This is not my opinion, it is not conjecture, there is science behind it from industiral engineers who are concerned with identifying, evaluation, and controlling real or potential workplace environmental stressors or hazard that can affect the wellbeing of workers and community members. If one really wants to follow the science reading the first linked article is a good place to start.

https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2021/04/06/masks-do-nothing-to-stop-the-spread-of-covid-and-are-harming-children/

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/study-finds-face-masks-didnt-slow-spread-of-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR3l99BTFA_xC8FBpLZgkC7ae6_JEANEcNyh9oOlhN0qBymDVwOJlnsctiU


07/29/21 08:57 PM #9722    

 

Michael McLeod

yep.n95 is the way to go.

 

On a separate and more general subject, this is fabulous, especially the quote at the end:

 

By Matthew Walther

Mr. Walther is the editor of The Lamp, a Catholic literary journal, and a contributing editor at The American Conservative.

A social historian looking for a defense of the Black Power movement in popular magazines and newspapers of the 1960s would have to do a great deal of digging. Such an inquirer would have an easier time quarrying the pages of Triumph, a little-remembered Catholic periodical started by L. Brent Bozell, a brother-in-law of William F. Buckley Jr., the founder of National Review.

In January 1967, the editors of Triumph suggested that Black Power could help to restore “liberty and human dignity to America.” Liberals congratulating themselves over the passage of major civil rights legislation, the magazine argued, were unaware of how they were still “barbarizing” Black people, who rightly understood that human dignity transcended mere legal recognition of their constitutional rights.

The editors would go even further than this. To these decidedly reactionary Roman Catholic laymen — Mr. Bozell had only recently returned with his family from Francisco Franco’s Spain — rioting was an understandable response to the “terror that always haunts men confronted by meaninglessness,” the actions of a people “yearning to make contact with the divine.” For Triumph, Black Power was a rebellion against the “soulless tyranny of secular liberalism,” and its adherents were worthy of praise because “almost alone among our brethren they seem willing to burst violently through the flesh into the realm of the spirit.”

When I began reading through the archives of Triumph several years ago, I found these arguments striking. This was not because they seemed to offer a wholly accurate assessment of the state of American race relations in the late ’60s. (Among other things, many at the magazine ignored the reality that millions of African Americans were quite pleased with the decidedly sublunary consolations of equal protection under the law and held correspondingly unromantic views about rioting.)

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

What struck me, rather, was that the editors, who also called for unilateral nuclear disarmament and were among the founders of the nascent pro-life movement, were doing something that even now, in a nation of some 65 million Catholics, seems impossibly radical: setting aside the standard ideological divisions of coalition politics in an attempt to apply the full range of the church’s social teaching to the problems of modern life.

It is certainly difficult to imagine anything like the magazine’s defense of the Black Power movement appearing in a conservative Catholic periodical today. Last year, the radio host Gloria Purvis was fired from her position with the Eternal Word Television Network, the largest Catholic broadcasting company in the United States, after suggesting that her co-religionists should be outraged by the death of George Floyd. (Her dismissal would almost certainly have baffled the network’s founder, Mother Mary Angelica of the Annunciation, who was inspired by the civil rights movement to start a religious community near Birmingham, Ala., that would appeal to African American women.)

Instead of commentary informed by the official teachings of the Catholic Church, much of what issues from the American Catholic press on the subject of race relations is indistinguishable from the competing perspectives on offer in secular media, with some Catholic liberals uncritically endorsing organizations such as Black Lives Matter, which has called for the displacement of the traditional nuclear family, and some on the right employing casuistry in defense of Mr. Floyd’s murder. This is the case despite the fact that on race and so many other issues, it is clear that distinctly Catholic positions — which is to say, responses formed by papal encyclicals, the lives and writings of the saints, the traditions of academic theology and natural law philosophy — do not line up with the mainstream of either progressive or conservative opinion in this country.

This is why pronouncements from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops often appear to those unfamiliar with the church’s social teaching as if they were the work of two very different entities: in favor of looser immigration policies, prudent stewardship of the environment and criminal sentencing reform, yet opposed to abortion, same-sex marriage and divorce. While it is certainly true that the relative weight assigned to each of these issues by individuals within the American episcopate varies, even the most “conservative” and “liberal” bishops are more likely to agree with one another than they are with prominent politicians in either of our two major political parties.

I express these concerns about the integrity of the church’s public witness because I believe that a thoughtfully articulated Catholic politics has a great deal to offer our officially secular republic. After all, ever since St. John XXIII’s encyclical “Pacem in Terris” was addressed in 1963 to “all men of good will,” the implied audience for Catholic social teaching has extended well beyond the Catholic faithful, not least because the church has always maintained that moral truth is available to all men and women by the light of reason alone.

 

Today, perhaps more than ever, the church presents a refreshing response to our nation’s enforced ideological bifurcation. Polling suggests that about 75 percent of Americans have moderate to progressive views on economic questions and slightly more than half are socially conservative. The median voter has both of these traits, and there are good reasons to think that it was this unnamed coalition of anti-libertarians who decided the outcomes of the last two presidential elections.

Both of our major political parties attempt to placate voters by triangulating occasionally, tactically co-opting stances from the other side. But the most striking thing about both parties is the wide range of positions they share that are at odds with the enthusiasms of the median voter: a bellicose foreign policy, free trade, social libertinism and the financialization of the economy.

In contrast, the church offers a consistent ethic of solidarity: against pre-emptive war of any kind (which the church tells us cannot be waged in a just manner under modern conditions), against the enrichment of the wealthy in poor and rich nations alike at the expense of the working and middle classes, against the increasingly nebulous claims of academic progressives and activists about the nature of the human person and against the pursuit of maximal shareholder value to the detriment of virtually every other meaningful consideration.

It is not just the wide range of issues addressed by the church’s social teaching that might inform a future large-scale political realignment but also the manner in which it does so. Consider the problem of cooperation among nations. If the events of the last year have revealed anything, it is the importance of what Benedict XVI, the pope emeritus, referred to as supranational institutions with “real teeth.” Instead of lionizing the neoliberal banalities of Davos Man, Catholic social teaching articulates a morally inflected defense of internationalism that rejects most of what makes Americans suspicious of it — the obliging attitude toward corporate power, the soft cultural imperialism of liberal nongovernmental organizations — while insisting upon its indispensability for the common good.

The idea that Catholic social teaching can inspire secular politics is not new. The papal encyclicals of the interwar period, which spoke to the anxieties of a world torn between the failures of laissez-faire economics and the growing threat of totalitarianism, were read enthusiastically by Franklin Roosevelt. Today Pope Francis, in keeping with many recent occupants of the Chair of Peter, addresses his writings to “all people of good will” rather than to the Catholic faithful alone as he inveighs against the spoliation of the Amazon region and its Indigenous peoples, wage slavery in Asia, the theft of natural resources in Africa and the replacement of civic life with algorithm-abetted consumerism in the developed world.

We already have a test case for what Catholic social teaching can offer to a population disillusioned by the collapse of a civilization and its supposed ideals: the European political tradition of Christian democracy. More than half a century ago, Christian democracy arose in Europe as a response to the ideologies that had given rise to a global economic depression and two successive world wars. The new postnationalist Europe to which this political movement gave rise — a Europe of robust trade unions and generously subsidized orchestras — was the dream not only of the onetime imperial heir Otto von Hapsburg and Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, the longtime prefect of the Holy Office, but also of Goethe and Schiller and Beethoven, the fulfillment of the promise of centuries of European humanism.

Like its predecessor in Europe, a revived Christian democracy in the United States would draw upon official church teaching as well as pilfer from the best of secular culture. A new Catholic politics would “baptize” Bernie Sanders’s health care plan, degrowth economics and bans on single-use plastics while drawing attention to neglected elements of our own political heritage that really are worth preserving, such as the presumption of innocence. Such a politics would also remind us, in ways that transcend politics in the narrow sense, of the value of forgiveness and contrition, as opposed to the self-aggrandizing quasi-therapeutic apologies to which we have become accustomed from public figures.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

The prospects for a politics informed by the church’s social teaching will be limited, of course, in the absence of an equally thoughtful Catholic culture, one that allows us to escape what Cardinal Robert Sarah calls the “dictatorship of noise.” A Catholic culture worthy of the name would be a catholic one — which is to say, it would be capacious in spirit. It would model virtues such as gregariousness, intellectual curiosity and munificence. It would offer an unapologetic defense of leisure and innocent entertainment by showing us the innate worthiness of everything from public barbecue grills and minor league baseball to regional theater companies and the miracle of hi-fi recording.

Such a culture would hold up to a world of faddishness those immortal words of St. Paul in his Epistle to the Philippians: “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”


07/30/21 12:21 PM #9723    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike, thank you for posting the article. 

"Today, perhaps more than ever, the church presents a refreshing response to our nation’s enforced ideological bifurcation. Polling suggests that about 75 percent of Americans have moderate to progressive views on economic questions and slightly more than half are socially conservative."  It would seem that we could focus more on these areas of agreement even though we will still disagree about the proper way address such issues as the economy, illegal immigration etc.  I believe that our politicians on both sides have been so entrenched in their varying stages of power over many years that they have forgotten their sworn duty is to preserve, protect and defend our Constitution.  Hope springs eternal, and I, too have.always loved Phillippians 4:8.


07/30/21 12:46 PM #9724    

 

Michael McLeod

You're welcome mm.

Thanks for posting about the virus and the proper mask.

Everyone needs to be just as careful as ever. Do NOT let down your guard. I am hearing stories from friends that frighten me. 


08/01/21 01:38 PM #9725    

 

John Jackson

I’ve been thinking about MM’s post 9972 questioning the effectiveness of masks for the past few days.  She cites an article on a conservative website that summarizes a scientific paper written by a biology professor from the University of Louisville who did a statistical study of data on mask wearing, mask usage, etc and concluded that masks have little or no effect  on slowing the spread of Covid.  From what I can tell, the website accurately summarizes the journal article (I read the original article also), and unlike those on the right who are usually ready to dismiss university research as having an agenda or being “biased”, I thought the journal article was worthwhile.  

The other link, is to an article on a conservative website maintained by John Bryan, a lawyer, who, according to the site, “led the legal resistance to the West Virginia Governor’s COVID lockdown orders in 2020”.  The article (with the understated title “Masks do nothing to stop the spread of COVID and are harming children”) cites graphics and data from an industrial engineer, but it appears the article was written, not by the engineer, but by Bryan (or someone else at this site, if there is any one else).   I found the graphics/data themselves really interesting (especially the one about how long particles of various sizes can float around in a room) and they did tend to call into question the efficacy of masks.  On the other hand, the article (written by the lawyer) seems to overreach and I wonder if the industrial engineer cited (who was arguing for engineering solutions such as better ventilation) would be completely comfortable with all of Bryan’s assertions.

My bigger problem, however, is that MM is urging us to “follow the science” when in reality there is lots more science that she isn’t citing that shows the efficacy of mask wearing.  As an example,  here’s a link to an article this year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that is an “evidenced-based” review of data on mask wearing referencing 141 separate articles.  Their conclusion:  “We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation”.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Another more readable summary is this article published last week.  It’s in the Palm Beach Post, not a scientific journal, but it gives at least a dozen links to studies on the effectiveness of masks:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/23/masks-covid-19-science-behind-how-face-coverings-work/8062401002/

Many people think that if a paper is published on some scientific topic it invariably constitutes “the science” on the topic.  But the laws that govern living things are incredibly complicated and messy compared to those that describe the behavior of atoms or molecules or speeding bullets.

And the same tactic (cherry picking occasional studies that are at odds with the overwhelming scientific consensus) has been used by climate deniers for decades to claim that “the science” supports their view.


08/01/21 03:34 PM #9726    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

And so, John, it comes down to whom are we to believe?  Up until recently, Americans were fairly free to make their own decisions regarding the risks/benefits of daily living.  You presented your information and I presented mine, and given that we were all endowed with an intellect, reason and free will, we all can be consumers of knowledge and choose what is best for our particular situation.  If you want to wear a mask, your right to choose to wear one should be respected, and if some choose not to wear one that right should be also respected.  The same with the vaccine.  Mandates are totaltiarian. Where does it end?  

I have to add that I find the constant drumbeat of referrencing "conservative website" /"right wing" /"cherry picking studies" is insulting to our classmates who are surely not taking everything written regarding politics or religion on this forum as unbiased and will do their own research and make up their own minds.

 


08/01/21 06:06 PM #9727    

 

John Jackson

MM, if vaccination mandates are totalitarian do you consider mandatory vaccination of school children for chicken pox, measles, etc totalitarian?

When, 65 years ago, we were all vaccinated in our parochial school classrooms with the Salk vaccine for polio, was that a good thing or yet another example of groupthink run amok? 


08/01/21 07:27 PM #9728    

 

Michael McLeod

Reality will overtake rhetoric. It always does. Given how infectious the Delta variant is there's a good chance that the day will come when the vast majority of the populace will have either been infected or injected.

I guess that would qualify as herd immunity.

Then the onces who say they stood up for their rights can continue arguing with those who paid attention to the realities of a killer disease. Rinse, repeat.

 


08/02/21 11:51 AM #9729    

 

Michael McLeod

Here's a weird little post:

It's a section from a paper I'm editing for a student about the modern phenomenon of conspiracy theories and what psychologists have to say about it.

There's a little something for everybody, whichever way you roll, at the end.

 

Research has found that people who seek meaning and patterns, as well as those who believe in supernatural events such as out of body experiences, after death experiences, ghosts, and other mystical occurrences, are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories (6). An experiment conducted by van Prooijen, et. al showed that an individual’s tendency to find patterns in a random coin toss correlated with their belief in conspiracy theories (40). This could imply a need to pursue conspiracy theories as a way to provide order and comprehension to experiences that aren't clear.

Existential needs serve an individual’s desire to feel secure and safe in the world, and this need may translate to a drive to seek out conspiracy theories when these needs are threatened (18).  Experiments completed by van Prooijen, et. al found that when people believe they have no control over the outcome of a situation, they are more likely to believe in conspiracies, and when their sense of control is confirmed, they are less likely to believe in them (37). In this way conspiracy theories provide an individual with a sense of autonomy and control.

Another existential motive that appears to lead to belief in conspiracy theories is a lack of socio-political control (6). Research performed by political scientists have found evidence that individuals whose political party are not in a position of power are inclined to believe in conspiracy theories more often than those who do have their political party in office, suggesting that people will turn to conspiracy theories as a response to feeling out of political control (36). Hart, et al. (2018), performed research and found people are drawn to conspiracies that confirm or verify their political beliefs. For example, Republicans are far more likely than Democrats to believe Obama forged his birth certificate, and Democrats are more likely to believe Trump’s 2016 campaign was won with collusion from the Russians (44).


08/02/21 12:04 PM #9730    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

John, Mike.....I would like to respectfully reply to your comments.  Regarding previous vaccines that have been mandated for schools or travel to certain areas I can only say that over the course of my lifetime, I have come to acknowledge that there were many issues that I have rather blindly accepted relying on the expertise of the medical community and those in the government.  Over the past 13 years, I have become much more aware of my need to question more and always research that which causes me to doubt that I am following the right path.  As for the childhood vaccines, I understand that they underwent the rigorous testing required by the FDA and were eventually given full FDA approval. That is not the case with any of these vaccines....in fact Moderna has NEVER brought a product before the FDA that has been approved.... they all remain experimental and those who get them are part of a clinical trial.  More importantly the risk/benefit of taking them MUST remain the right of individuals who alone know fully all the particulars of their own immune health.  I remain gravely concerned about the coercion being exerted over the mandating that is accelerating and thus putting people's livelihoods at stake.  What about those who have already had COVID and have natural immunity, which is known to be greater than any vaccine immunity?  Furthermore, the most important issue to me is the fact that the government, in coordination with universities, health organizations, and big businesses are unconscionably forcing individuals to make a life choice against their will.  Perhaps this would be a moral undertaking were it not for the fact that for those under the age of 70 with no underlying health conditions there is a 99.8% chance of survival from COVID.  The mere fact that the coercion to vaccinate has moved from those who are at the greatest risk of actually dying from the virus, to the very least vulnerable in the population the children who, after a year and a half of studies, are known to have a 0.07% chance of dying.  Does no one care to ask why there is such a frantic push?  Additionally, as I have stated over and over......Ivermectin has become THE therapeutic, in conjunction with a couple of other meds which given early in the symptom stage, greatly reduce symptoms and shorten the duration of the virus.  And so, I ask WHY would these medications be censored/banned or demonized.  WHY??  I know why, it is because the government, the medical communities, the businesses are working together to make billions and to extract more and more power and control from the citizens.  There can not be any other logical reason for this constant fear-mongering and pressure, to say nothing of the government's threats to the unmasked, the unvaccinated, and those who voted for Trump's POLICIES, to become designated as "domestic terrorists".   

John, Mike et al....you can rip this post apart any which way you can, but I will stand 100% behind everything I have stated because as an observer of history and as one who has listened to the pleas of those who immigrated from Russia, Albania, Serbia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc, and were the outspoken voices of the 2020 #WalkAwayCampaign, warning Americans that the tyranny that they thought they had left behind was now fast beoming the future for our nation..


08/02/21 01:28 PM #9731    

 

Michael McLeod

I'll say coercion is overstating the case and leave it at that.

And the good news is that a substantial majority of seniors have been vaccinated and that the mortality  rate has plunged accordingly.

I agree tyranny is an issue to be keenly aware of at the moment, but from an entirely diffferent  and far more viral direction than the one you seem to be focused on. And I quote:

Richard Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine, and one of the country’s foremost election-law experts, told me, “I’m scared.” Referring to the array of new laws passed by Republican state legislatures since the 2020 election, he said, “It’s not just about voter suppression. What I’m really worried about is election subversion. Election officials are being put in place who will mess with the count.”

 


08/02/21 04:28 PM #9732    

Joseph Gentilini

I have been reading all the back-and-forth regarding the Covid vaccines: whether they are safe, whether people should take them, whether there should be mandates or not, etc.  People can have all sorts of opinions.

For those who think they are not safe or that there should be no mandates or that it is all a political dig at donald trump, there can be no answer that will safisfy. 

For those who believe the science, for thost who believe they are safe, for those who people there should be more government involvement with the vaccines, etc., no other answer is needed.

 

 


go to top 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page