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07/05/21 03:25 PM #9594    

 

David Mitchell

I meant to add this yesterday but got busy with other matters;

 

I have long been fascinated by the details of the signing if the Declaration of Independence in Philadlephia in 1776.  And a hot weekend it must have been. Imagine being couped up in a room with about 65 guys in those high collared three-piece suits - with no air conditioning and no Coke machine out in the hall. Not to mention some "heated" arguments.

John Adams was sure we would all celebrate this event on the 2nd, which was the day they made the proclamation. But it was not signed until the 4th. And some accounts say it was not all signed until August 2nd (or 4th?). And it is certain that the New York delgates were not authorized to sign it without returning home for their own state legislaure to approve - on the 13th, I believe.

Four men signed it, even though they opposed it. They felt it was important to appear to have been unanimous. Apparantly, 8 men refused to sign. I read somewhere years ago that some one refused because they thought it was too soft on the King. He wanted the document to include a demand for financial "damages" (reparations) - mainly because of the British use of the Hessian (German mercenary) troops in America. 

And big names like George Washington, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison did not sign, simply because they were not there at the time. General Washington was a just bit busy at the time, defending New York. 

-------------

History is strange.

Adams and Jefferson had been close friends earlier in life. But they fell out and became rather bitter enemies. While running for president in the election of 1801 - (against his own presidient, Adams), Vice Presidnet Jefferson hired "professional slanderers" to spread lies about his boss and ruin his re-election chances. He defeated Adams to become the third President.   

Then, later in life, they gradually reconciled. And on July 4th 1826 - 50 years to the day  after the signing in Philladelphia, they both died. It is thought that Pony Express riders carrying the announcement to one anothers homes, must have unknowingly passed each other somewhere along the way to each destination.


07/05/21 03:29 PM #9595    

Timothy Lavelle

One of the scare tactics in the last election was the imminent collapse of the stock market if Biden won. Only the previous president could keep Wall Street standing erect was the mythical thinking.

This morning I did my "once every 6 months" check of our investment situation. Our account total is UP by an almost perfect 10% since November 2020. Another myth busted!

Thanks Joe, America sure feels a little more friendly these days. Liked your inclusive speech.

 

 

 

 

 

 


07/06/21 09:00 AM #9596    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Some perspective on the difference between how the MSM reports on the stock market depending on which party is in the White House.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/10/06/washington-stock-market-unequal-recovery-426635


07/06/21 09:55 AM #9597    

 

Michael McLeod

Wondering how that story supports your msm slur, mm. Most of it looks pretty cut and dried, same old same old factually. I suppose the headline can be taken to be a bit snarky so maybe that's what you mean. And I can't fault Tim for saying things feel friendlier these days, if only because we no longer have a president who takes such sneering delight at insulting anyone who disagreed with him. I wouldn't even categorizing that as opinionating.


07/06/21 11:44 AM #9598    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike, the headline from the Politico piece states what they want the reader to take away:
Trump stock market soars — and wealthy reap gains
 
And my point was that while Biden can be credited with boosting the stock market according to Tim, and that is to be considered a "good",  the same scenario under the Trump Administration was touted as only benefiting the wealthy.  Biden good/Trump bad.  What Tim left out of the stock market success is that inflation is here....products I purchase today may be the same price I paid last year, but I curiously receive less for my purchase as the packaging contains less product.  Some grocery items have been steadily rising as in the price of meat....any meat, etc.  The price of gas, which under Trump's administration was often under $2/gal here in Ohio, has been steadily over $3/gal. since Biden has decided to make the U.S. less energy independent and this has an impact on the price of all goods and services...a trickle down effect.  I certainly don't miss the personality and narcissism of Donalld Trump, but I do miss much of his agenda.  My philosophy of governing will never be that which has taken over the Democratic party and often even that of some of the Republican party that diminiishes individual  responsibility and personal freedom.  
 
     

07/06/21 01:48 PM #9599    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike and MM,

To me it has always been policy over personality.

Which brings up the questions I asked on the User Forum last month under the General Discussion entitled "President Biden". I am still awaiting any responses from those who voted for / supported him.

Jim


07/06/21 02:05 PM #9600    

 

Michael McLeod

mm/dr J:

One could clearly write the same headline today, I'll grant you that.

But Trump's policies clearly favored the rich and short-term wealth-grabbing to an extreme (see "clean coal" advocacy, opening up national parks to mining, cutting back on polution regs) over the common good. Hence I'd call that headline more objective during his term.

And Jim, if I get time I'll take a look at that policy argument you make, though I'll be inclined to approach it in my own way, one that might appear tangential to you - and might also answer mm's observation in its own way. It will require a bit of research and thought and composition and I am opposed to doing any of those things in a well-organized fashion without getting paid for it. But I think I will get the breathing room to do so. I'm still working -- I teach a class and write for three publications and have a book deal in the works -- and i'm beginning to wonder when/if I should just stop, pay attention to my family, enjoy life, etc. I can't figure it out by  thinking about it - I'm going to have to experiment, cut back gradually and see how that feels.


07/06/21 02:46 PM #9601    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike,

 I am sure whatever response you render will be well organized and researched even if it does not resonate with conservative viewpoints. And we can do with the "free" version as no payments will be coming your way 😢.

 (I guess that's like the medical issues I have addressed here on this website 😷😁!) 

Jim 


07/06/21 05:45 PM #9602    

 

Michael McLeod

Jim: touche.


07/06/21 11:05 PM #9603    

 

Bonnie Jonas (Jonas-Boggioni)

Frank & Mike Mc:  Have you battened down the hatches?

 


07/07/21 11:02 AM #9604    

 

Michael McLeod

Hi Bonnie. Thanks for asking. Had some rain and a bit of wind but if I hadn't been watching the news I wouldn't have known anything special was up. It was a peewee as hurricanes go and Orlando is pretty far inland. They got some good gusts in Tampa as it worked its way up the gulf but nothing serious over there from what I can tell. 

This is our rainy season and looking out my office window I just see overcast skies and no rain at all at this point. 


07/07/21 11:23 AM #9605    

 

Mark Schweickart

Mike--Care to share a bit more about the "book deal" you alluded to? What will you be writing about (or perhaps have already written)? Regardless, good luck in that endeavor. 


07/07/21 12:11 PM #9606    

 

Michael McLeod

Mark:

It's an expose of the class of '66 in which I applaud the people who agree with me and demonize those who don't.

Just kidding. I won't demonize them. I'll castigate them.

Just kidding. I'm actually negotiating a coffee table book about a performing arts center that is being built in Orlando. It's up and running and just has one more theater to be completed. The place is state of the art gorgeous and done by one of the biggest bigshot architects in the country.

Putting up one of these things is a massive civic and engineering enterprise. Obviously there are egos and politics to maneuver through when writing about the conceptualizing and planning, and then just conveying the technical challenges in a way that engages the average reader is a chore.It's actually a fairly intimidating challenge and to be honest it's pretty scary to think of committing to something that will take me - well months and months. I'd guess a year but more likely a year's worth of work that they'll expect in a much shorter time. It would be ok with me if it went away but I'm stubborn when it comes to taking on a challenge that comes my way. And once I'm done, if I do it, I wouldn't be surprised if I chilled and just did light writing from then on out. Getting too old for this shit, as they say.

 

 


07/07/21 01:20 PM #9607    

Timothy Lavelle

Oh my gawd Mike...

PA system screams "I wanna ba a demon, I wanna be a demon, I wanna be a demon!" Please accept my application for permanent alternate in the coming Demonscape. If I could get a double helping of castigation with that please? Love me some fresh castigation. 

Richard Prior. So funny, so straight forward "unapologetic black man in your face" sort of humor when I was so ready to laugh at anything that went against my bigoted upbringing.

BUT...Bob Newhart. One of the funniest twisted wits ever. He changed humor a bit when he told a story about an infinite number of monkeys pounding on an infinite number of typewriters. How they would eventually type out every famous line ever spoken. 

"To be, or not to be. That is the gazilnernplatt." 

One word makes all the difference in the world.

It's not about policy for most folks Jim and you never seem to get that. It is about the change of one word. It could now be President Gazilnernplatt and we would still be happier than we were. 

To gripe about inflation! Why not just moan about the weather? 


07/07/21 02:09 PM #9608    

 

John Maxwell

A mortician once told me he always ties the shoelaces together of the departed just in case there is a zombie apocalypse. She thinks it will be hilarious.

07/07/21 03:16 PM #9609    

 

Michael McLeod

So...as long as they aren't buried in their loafers we're cool. 

 


07/07/21 08:00 PM #9610    

 

David Mitchell

Tom McKeon is much more in Elsa's path. He told me this morning it's not all that much. Up here we're starting to get wet and more of that on the way. But we need very drop.


07/07/21 09:42 PM #9611    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Tim,

"It's not about policy for most folks..."  Really? Hmmm, I must not be in with the in crowd or maybe with the "woke crowd". That's got to be it! Because I am not "happier than we were", at least with the direction in which current "policies" are taking our country. Otherwise, I'm a pretty happy guy!

Perhaps I should join "most folks" and find what their happiness is all about! 

Jim

 

 


07/08/21 01:31 PM #9612    

 

Michael McLeod

In fairness, Jim, under ordinary circumstances someone who says they want to discuss policy and not personality is announcing that any conclusions they come to or arguments that they make will be rational ones. But under the cirumstances it can be interpreted as a feint, a dodge, a way of ignoring the elephant in the room (points to the writer for double meaning there) in the form of  a divisive, hatemongering, personality-cult figure that put our democracy in jeopardy -- from start, when there was serious discussion in high places about keeping him at a distance from the nuclear-war trigger, to finish, when he set up a mob scene that will go down as one of this country's most dangerous and humiliating black eyes and persists to this day in the form of a Big Lie that continues to weaken and divide the national psyche. I'm having my students write their final term paper about conspiracy theories  -- from q-anon tripe to flat-earthers - and the mass-hysteria they can cause among certain populations. 

So I think that's what may have been on Tim's mind.

I'll talk policy with you, sure, but forgive me if I spend a great deal of time worrying about the kind of deceptiveness I see in the republican smear campaign that relies on misconstruing ongoing racial issues, tinkering with voting rights, and going along with the Big Lie. Trump used to say he inherited a big mess when he got to the white house. Whatever it was it had nothing on the dumpster fire he left behind. I'd say Biden's done a damn good job of contending with it. 

But more to the point you bring up: No chance for you at the cool kid's table.

You're still welcome to sit over her with me and the nerds. 


07/08/21 02:26 PM #9613    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike, 

​​​​Conspiracy theories - very interesting topic for your students final term paper. Maybe some student will write about the Russian Collusion, one that was so prominent over an entire administration. Could that student be eligible for an"A"? 

Jim 


07/08/21 02:35 PM #9614    

 

Michael McLeod

Jim:

If they can run it down as a conspiracy theory, hell yes. However it may sound I keep politics at bay in the classroom. The sources they use are peer reviewed studies by sociologists and psychologists and though some of the studies reflect politics the root causes of buying into flat-earther type of group think are broader in scope, rooted in how some people try to cope with the growing complexities and dangers of a modern world and the panoply of social media news sources.

 


07/08/21 10:16 PM #9615    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike, 

Kudos for keeping politics out of the classroom! I would think in this day and age, that would be a difficult task.

I know that whenever I taught at our Army Hospital treading lightly on controversial topics was imperative. But then, there used to be limited political controversies in medical issues. However, at a college, even the nearby Air Force Academy, that is not the case. You may have seen the news reports (front page headlines in our Colorado Springs Gazette today) about the civilian political science professor at the AFA who is promoting teaching CRT to the cadets.

Politics permeates just about everyhing today. Good luck with your class! 

Jim 


07/08/21 10:49 PM #9616    

 

John Jackson

I’ve been absent from the discussion lately, but after fortifying myself with a few Rusty Nails (way better than Prevagen for clearing the mind!) I have to speak up.

I’ve held my tongue  because I’ve been busy but mostly because I thought the cult of  Trump might start to fall apart after the election.  Instead I’ve been utterly bummed out by the fact that the Republican Party has not regained at least some semblance of rationality – after all, we Dems need a credible opposition party to hold our feet to the fire and keep us from going too far.

I naively thought that after Trump’s appallingly undemocratic and naked post-election power grab (aided by the now disbarred crazy uncle Rudy Giuliani and the mindlessness of Fox News) was quashed by every federal and state judge (including numerous Trump appointees at the federal level) we might more or less return to our traditional democratic ways.  But, to my disappointment, the Republican Party has doubled down and, in a naked display of racism, is trying to cling to power by making it difficult for those who disagree with them  to vote.  We had a civil rights movement in this country 60 years ago, in part about this issue (and long before Critical Race Theory, Jim), and now it looks like we’re back to square one.

But thanks, Jim, for bringing up the conservative buzzword du jour of CRT (discussed endlessly, and mindlessly, on Fox News).

I also have to say I think Mike’s earlier post today (#9612) really hit the nail on the head.

And, MM, regarding your post 9598, I think most of us would agree that “individual responsibility and personal freedom” are apple pie concepts that no one disputes – so not a very useful basis for discussion.  So  I have two questions:

1.  How does your (and today’s Republican Party’s) extreme concept of individual responsibility square with the Gospels - do you read the Sermon on the Mount as telling the meek and persecuted that they need to buck up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps?   And how do you reconcile your view with more than a hundred years of Catholic teaching on social justice as embodied in numerous encyclicals?

2.  Are you OK with “individual responsibility and personal freedom” when it comes to abortion?  I ask this question as someone who is uncomfortable with abortion but not as comfortable as you with banning it outright.         

 


07/09/21 06:11 AM #9617    

 

Michael Boulware

I would like to comment about the coutesy displayed by my fellow class mates. Jim, Mike, Mary Margaret, Tim, and Dave all have varying points of view and explain them without attacking each other. I look forward to reading what you have to say.


07/09/21 08:16 AM #9618    

 

Michael McLeod

Thanks Mike. I actually have been needlessly snarky on numerous occasions and  in truth half the time I look like I'm being courteous I'm faking it. Gotta work on expanding the better half.

Here's some more food for thought. A recent essay that resonated with me given my privileged upbringing. If nothing else I've always loved that famous third-base quotation. 

 

Like a lot of white males, I read Ayn Rand’s bestselling novel Atlas Shrugged when I was 18. And like a lot of white males, Atlas Shrugged turned me into a huge jerk for a couple of months.

Atlas Shrugged, which was published in 1959 and came in second only after The Bible in a Library of Congress survey of influential books, is a 1,200-page sci-fi novel about what would happen if all the “makers” in the world were to go on strike. The mysterious hero of the book, John Galt, encourages captains of industry, inventors, and other heroes of capitalism to join him in a secret utopia hidden in Colorado called Galt’s Gulch. The rest of the world — populated only by collectivists, politicians, and other assorted “takers” — quickly begins to fall apart without them.

Atlas Shrugged serves as a page-turning enticement to Ayn Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism, which is based on the idea that selfishness should be the guiding virtue for all mankind. (If you think I’m overstating or mischaracterizing her message, please note that Rand literally published a non-fiction book titled The Virtue of Selfishness.)

Self-interest, Rand argues, is the best motivation for economics, finance, politics, and basically all of humanity’s pursuits. Putting others first, she argues, means that everyone finishes last.

Rand’s simplistic Objectivist worldview couldn’t be better designed to appeal to sheltered middle-and-upper-class suburban white boys like me — the kind of people who, in the immortal words of Barry Switzer, were born on third base and thought they hit a triple.

For kids like me at the time, Rand’s message that we earned every piece of wealth that we inherited was a comforting one, and it pleased our egos by centering us as masters of the universe who deserved our elevated perch.

Thankfully, it didn’t take me too long to shake off the themes of Atlas Shrugged. As soon as I befriended people who were not suburban white dudes, and once I understood that they had to work five times as hard to enjoy half of the privilege that I enjoyed, I realized that Rand was singing a heroic ode to the comfortable. With the application of a little bit of empathy and life experience, her philosophy fell apart.

But plenty of powerful adults still subscribe to Rand’s philosophy. Former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan has spoken often, and lovingly, about the impact Rand had on his life. Former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan was a Randian acolyte, along with both Ron and Rand Paul. Some of Silicon Valley’s most powerful players, including Peter Thiel and Travis Kalanick, have praised Rand.

Her writing to this day informs a particularly virulent form of conservative thought — fiercely libertarian, aggressively anti-government, blindly in favor of handing power to corporations.

In a recent episode of Pitchfork Economics, Nick Hanauer and David Goldstein talked with celebrated evolutionist David Sloan Wilson about his debut novel, Atlas HuggedHugged rebuts the claims of Shrugged using Sloan’s unparalleled understanding of evolutionary biology, which reframes humans as cooperative and community-minded animals and not mono-maniacally selfish actors.

And for a ripped-from-the-headlines example of why humans are absolutely not the sociopathic strivers of Rand’s fiction, look no further than the pandemic. How would Galt’s Gulch have responded last year when COVID-19 arrived?

To begin with, none of Rand’s rugged individualist protagonists would abide by a mask mandate. They loathe government regulations of all types, and since mask-wearing protects other people as much as it does the person wearing the mask, it violates Rand’s primary directive of selfishness above all else. The same goes for six-foot social distancing rules.

So already, Galt’s Gulch looks like a petri dish for coronavirus. Rand envisioned her utopia as a haven for CEOs and presidents of big manufacturing firms, and the average age of CEOs in America has climbed in recent years to just under 60 years old. Given that 95% of all coronavirus deaths have been in people over 60 years old, the survival rate for Galt’s Gulch isn’t looking great.

I hear the protests now: “But surely these unfettered capitalists would be able to buy or manufacture ventilators to keep those infected CEOs alive?”

Probably not.

If you recall, ventilators were in high demand in the early days of the pandemic, and then-President Trump had to use powers of government to force General Motors to manufacture them — a gross violation of Rand’s philosophy.

And the global supply chain was completely broken in those early days, meaning all the money in the world couldn’t get ventilators or the parts to manufacture ventilators to Galt’s Gulch in time to save those poor sickened Objectivists.

Then consider the fact that Galt’s Gulch likely has no public health department to inform the populace about at-risk behaviors and demographics, no way to direct private business in ways that benefit the public good without massive price-gouging, and no tax dollars to support people who lose their jobs because of the pandemic, and John Galt’s utopia is starting to look a lot like The Hunger Games.

There’s a reason why libertarians have been so quiet since COVID arrived on our shores a year ago, and why Republican hyper-conservatives were bleating about Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head when Democrats were passing an incredibly popular pandemic relief package.

The pandemic is proof of the single inescapable fact that destroys Ayn Rand’s philosophy: We live in a society, and nobody is truly a self-made master of their own destiny. The sooner we understand the American ideal of sovereign individualism is the stuff of science-fiction, the faster we can get to work building a world that’s better for everyone.

Originally published at https://www.businessinsider.com on May 21, 2021.


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