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Fred Clem

Two of Jimmy Crum's lines I remember were:

In a close game with several lead changes "We've got a real barn burner tonight!".

When a Buckeye made a spectacular play, a long drawn out "Hooooow about that, sports fans!".

Joseph Gentilini

God knows I am just getting into the conversation in midstream.  Regarding the Ohio State Fair, I try to go every year just to see how others live.  As Leo and I walk through the main arena where people are trying to sell dish soap, car polishers, ring cleaning, chiropratic services, 'God', etc., we are so glad that we did not have to make a living like this.  There is a part of me that just cringes.  Someone mentioned faith versus doubt.  Faith is believing in something unseen but hoped for.  I belieive that true faith always includes havng doubts.  Otherwise it would not be faith.  I marvel at all the conversations we all are having.  Even if I don't respond to everything, I read them.  It is too bad that we could not have shared our lives like this when we were students at Watterson.  Thanks.  Joe

Mark Schweickart

Jimmy Crum was one of my customers on my Columbus Citizen-Journal route. He rarely came to the door when I knocked each week to collect my 53 cents. It was usually his wife who greeted me, but there was a time or two when he did, and then reached into his pants pocket and jingled out the requisite coins for me. Oh my, a brush with greatness, sports fans!

James Hamilton, M. D.

Linda Weiner (Bennett)

Sorry I'm slow to respond:

* I really love what y'all have to say about faith and I do agree with you, if I understand what you're trying to say. Everybody doesn't follow the same path& Dave, you are correct, God did not create all this division, WE did!  Also, Dave, nail on head, "I think the essential message is simply - God is crazy in love with us, and wishes we could see that He wants a deep personal relationship with us." Amen! Amen! Amen! 

* I also agree that questioning is healthy and forces us to delve deeper.

* In my agnostic days, a friend said to me once that she'd rather live her life as if there IS a God then find out there isn't, than to live her life as if there is no God only to find out that there really IS (probably a paraphrase ). I never forgot it, and she was probably the first catalyst that started a conversion process in me. 

* The one thing that's missing from this conversation, which I sort of hate to bring up, is the incredible power that  "the evil one" has and uses to the best of his ability against us. And I really hate giving him credit, or maybe I should say blame for things that we do, but I've seen and felt what he has tried to do to me. At least twice in my life "he" has gone to extremes to prevent me from praying the Rosary—extreme as in putting me in danger.  Some of you are probably rolling your eyes about now, but I'll bet serious things have happened to you that you never connected to the "evil one!"

Linda Weiner (Bennett)

 Joe G, your book sounds like a good read. I downloaded the e-form yesterday.

David Dunn

Julie -  I remember you telling me at some point that your grandma lived on Summit near Northwood. She was about 6 or 7 houses away from me. That was MY block, my turf. Ever since I was old enough to walk to school in first grade, I was allowed to travel within that block, til I was old enough to cross the street (by myself). The Thomas' (on 19th?) walked me to school my first year or two. So, I am sure that I must have passed you many times on the street, and not known who you were. There was something about living on Summit Street, "close" to downtown, that gave me the feeling of living in the big city (the constant traffic, the trolley buses, the crowded neighborhood ...)

David Dunn

Joe - there has been enough about the agora, the Fair, the year-around different shows that has kept me still working there after 43 years. All the different people, events, venues, variety, & animals. Since we lived so closeby, I used to walk over to the Fair every day, every year, when the Fair was in town. My family was the same way. My dad was in the 17th Star play in the grandstand in 1953. And I still remember seeing my grandmother over there walking around during the Fair when I was there by Myself and little. And she also worked there.

Julie Carpenter

Dave--not to belabor the point, but my grandma didn't move to Summit St. 'til sometime in the sixties, I think. Before that, she lived on Como Street in Clintonvile. I don't remember much about the Como St. house except that my sisters and I would sometimes go to the Clinton Theatre when we visited her. And I think the only reason I remember that is because of the understreet tunnel we used to take to get to and from the theatre. We thought the tunnel was really cool. I know I'm making it sound like everytime we visited my grandma, we girls would go out to the rink or a movie instead of visiting wth her. But those ventures were few and far between. Mostly we sat on her couch in our Sunday clothes, trying to keep quiet and behave ourselves while Mom, Dad and Grandma chatted about things in general--most especially how well her grandaughters were doing in school and behaving themselves and being pretty fantastic (blah, blah, blah--if they only knew!). As we got older, we picked up grandma and brought her to our house for Sunday dinners. Anyway, I miss my grandma. I was lucky enough to get to know her a lot better as an adult. My parents moved to Michigan and I spent a lot of time with Grandma, visiting her, taking her to cash her social security check, shopping, etc. Should have started that a lot sooner. Enough reminiscing for now.

David Dunn

Julie - That explains it then. And we movedaway from there in 1961

David Mitchell

Linda,

There is a line in an old movie (The Usual Suspects), where Kevin Spacey says, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist". 

Joe,

Your remark about faith vs. doubt is one of the most profound things I've read on this forum.

"If we didn't have doubts, it wouldn't be faith."    Well said. 

Timothy Lavelle

Sorry, I only have a minute because my dog "Devil" wants to play.

Or how about "Tim LaVelle died yesterday and WOW! was he surprised when the next thing he knew, he was waking up at the Pearly Gates and Man! Did he have some explaining to do"!!

So, yeah, I don't agree with those of you who believe, whether that is "still" or "have returned". But like the guy said, I'd fight (well, someone old and pretty wimpy) for your right to believe and state those beliefs. And "Thank You" to the one person who made contact privately to save my eternal life. Did I mention that that was all of ONE person believers?? Too late now, the polls are closed on that one!

I am not surprised that people do, or don't believe. But here are two very weird facts. Well, to me:

1) I've never been able to keep "effect" and "affect" straight in my mind so I try really hard to avoid those words when writing. Isn't that weird and totally pathetic? Please don't waste your time telling me about verbs and nouns - it's a brain worm I tell you!

2) I don't get "strong" emotion, in some contexts. A reliable person has reminded me that discussion of faith can be dangerous; as in it could hurt people's feelings. So please, put your feelings behind you where I can't get at 'em cause hurting them is not my intent. Course, 'road to hell' and all that so guard those feelings. Here's my next grenade...but this one is like a "dumb bomb"...and it just sort of fizzles and you hear "It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood" in a tiny tinny voice.

But before I get to that, if we were all back in HS and had a big fullback or guard or tackle whose last name was House, wouldn't one of us, maybe me, try to nickname him "Tiny"? Probably hurt his feelings, huh? Tiny House!

OK. dumb bomb...why do the topics of religion and politics contain so much emotion...literal mental dynamite. If I use either the name Hilary or the name Donald, many hear a growl or a !Boing! in their heads and the blood pressure ticks up. The point: If I say "I don't believe in mathematics" someone might say "Dude, how do you count your change" but no one would hear that emotional !Boing! like some do if I say I don't believe in organized religion. Here's a trick...O, hey, speaking of tricks...you can balance an egg on end any day of the year...both Big Phooey and Egg Foo Yung got tricked on that one...so did all my Mother's children...but back to the current topic/trick... I write the word "god" with a small "g" and in doing so I alienate, at least some small percentage of you. That fact totally amazes me. I enjoy Dave's passion so I'm sure to hear from him - sincerely Dave, no sneaky put down there - but I would love to hear from anyone else with a pair of drawers like Dave has...hey, did you know that 'cajones' are 'drawers'? And it is 'cojones' that vulgarly refers to a male's effectiveness, er, uh affectiveness? McLid, help me out word man. Imagine being in Latin America and asking a carpenter to make a dresser "with 12 cojones" for you.

Lastly - strong emotion that results from children being hurt or old people - we are not old people yet - being taken advantage of, I can understand. Maybe I just have a blind spot for religion and politics or another problematic brain worm?

Gotta go...that evil bitch "Devil" wants a scratch behind the ear! Man, did I say "Scratch" out loud?? Oooopps.

David Mitchell

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David Mitchell

OMG!  As I live and breathe (as Ssister Norbertine was wont to say).

I just opened USA TODAY on my desktop and saw the lead article; "Pope is open to married priests". I went to bed last night with that very question after reading yesterrday's shocking news about the priests sex scandals  in Italy (which isn't news at all really). That stuff goes on in many "churches" (religions), but maybe not to such extremes as the stories that broke yesterday.

And yes Tim, "Organized" religion is full of it's own messes - as it is full of human beings. At least you have the "jewells' to speak up and go at it. I'd walk a mile for a good political argument or religious discussion.  It's what I was exposed to all the time at my dinner table growing up. Sad that we all have to be either so beligerant, or completely silent about these things now. The "Us vs. Them" thing sure gets tiresome. I guess listening ain't what 'Mericans do best.

John Maxwell

Linda Weiner (Bennett)

OMGOSH!!! Where the hell is my Rosary! 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Timothy Lavelle

Linda please don't take the name of Gosh in vain! Dave, excellent. Jim...You got me! I bet your doorbell chimes the tune to "Doctor, doctor! Mr MD, Can u tell me, what's wrong with me?" I am hopeful that Boomers will be the data bank for rewriting all those books on age and ageing. Jocko...good to hear your voice.

Woke up in the middle of the night and wanted to delete my last post but was too lazy. Hey, let's go in a different direction.

Bucket list anyone? Me? Ride a motorcycle up to Alaska. Tour the battle sites in Spain where Wellington & the Spanish gave the boot to Napoleon's Marshals. See St Petersburg and Moscow. Get rid of these moles! Understand why we still have a electoral college. Bounce a grandbaby on my knee. 2018 Colubus to Las Vegas extravaganza.  

Michael McLeod

Tim: The safest place for your cojones is in your drawers.

I hope that answers your question.

Donna Kelley (Velazquez)

....and if we add cojines (cushions) to the mix everything gets just a little more comfortable.

Debby, I see you are online.  Tell us hi!!

David Mitchell

(tomato - tomaato)

You say cojones, she says cojines, let's call the whole thing off.

Mark Schweickart

I was quite "affected" by Tim's post,  and the overall "effect" it had on me was to "effect" a change in my attitude about discussing my religious feelings on this site. I don't want anyone's blood pressure spiking on my account, but since Tim was brave enough to send an atheistic shot across the bow of the Christian mother ship, I guess I should at least add my two-cents in agreement, and salute him with an "Aye, aye, Captain." What follows is a bit long, but hopefully is presented in an entertaining way. It is an excerpt from a scene I wrote in one of my screenplays. It expresses where I basically fit in along the theistic/atheistic/anti-thesistc spectrum. I was quite influenced by the writings of Albert Camus, hence the clumsy borrowing of his name for my character named "Kaymus." The time is 1983, and Kaymus is a Viet Nam vet who prefers to address his PTSD demons more from a philosophical than a psychological perspective. This is one of his philosophical riffs. This particular riff sets up his rebellion, but does not address his first question, which is: on what can one base a moral code if one does not believe in God. We'll save that riff of his for another day. I may have over-stayed my welcome here as it is.

KAYMUS and the bartender, PHIL, are alone in the mid- afternoon. Phil is a Black man in his mid-thirties. Kaymus has a book open, The Rebel by Albert Camus, as he nurses a drink. Phil is stocking the cooler behind the bar.
KAYMUS
Phil, do you think it's possible to be a saint and not even believe in God?
PHIL
Oh so what are we playing here now,  Metaphysical Jeopardy?
KAYMUS
(laughs)
Yeah, we are all living in metaphysical jeopardy now aren't we?
PHIL
That's not what I meant.
KAYMUS
Nonetheless, nonetheless, that was well put. So what do you think? What can a person base his good works on, his saintly actions, if you will, if he doesn't believe in God? Or even more confusing, what if he does believe in God, say like Ivan Karamazov, but his ethical sense tells him he should rebel against that God because His rules... God's rules that is, are just so unacceptable to the human heart? What do you say?
PHIL
Goddam, Kaymus, you are one screwed up mother.  Hey, don't get me wrong, I like you, but damn, man, you sure come up with crazy shit.
KAYMUS
Why is that crazy?
PHIL
You're going to rebel against God? Who are you to say something like that? Satan? You think you're going to win, tough guy?
KAYMUS
Hey, Ahab knew he wouldn't win. Didn't stop him from trying.
PHIL
Stop messing with me, man.
KAYMUS
I'm serious.
PHIL
(chuckles)
Oh, I'm sure you are. You ain't nothing but serious, mystery man.
KAYMUS
Well here's the mystery. Suppose... suppose you've got someone who wants to do the right thing, but as he looks around, everywhere he looks, God's grand handiwork just makes him want to puke. Don't get me wrong, mountains, clouds, stars, very impressive. But everything else that really touches us.... I mean everything is so corrupt, mean, ugly, painful. You know? Little kids, little friggin' kids, being tortured, murdered, dying of cancer, their poor little, bald, chemo-ed heads .... "This brave o'erhanging firmament no more than foul and pestilent congregation of vapors"--you know what I mean?
PHIL
Oh yeah, I know all about pustular conflagrations or whatever the hell you just said. Goddam, you're nuts you know that? Why are you worrying about that kind of shit, man? Aren't there enough problems in this world without you worrying about God, and saints, and shit?
KAYMUS
But that's exactly why we've got so many problems. If we figure that there is a God out there, but that the cruel son of a bitch isn't worth knowing because of the way he condemns so many of his children to lives of unspeakable pain and degradation, then what? How do we decide what is right, if God is wrong? And what if there is no God out there? Is it every man for himself? Then it's not just survival of the fittest, my man, it's the survival of the cruelest. Either way, the majority of us, all God's chilluns, get to smell the brimstone and feel the fire... right in the here and now.
PHIL
Well, look man, if you want me to be serious for a moment, well I'd say you've got to believe in a God who makes sense to you. One of love and mercy not fire and brimstone.
KAYMUS
Yeah, well you try telling that to a little kids all covered in napalm. Unfortunately, they don't hear very well when their skin is on fire.
PHIL
Well, this is one bartender who isn't hearing too well either. I mean, what the hell am I suppose to say to you, Kaymus? You know life is hardly all squalor and disease.
KAYMUS
Yeah, true, true. But a lot more live there than don't.... And even for those who don't, they are often living, as they say, "lives of quiet desperation."
PHIL
Hey, when was the last time you were "quiet." I am "desperate" to know?
KAYMUS
(laughs)
Touche, Phil, touche.... So you believe in God, right.
PHIL
Damn straight.
KAYMUS
So, here's one thing I don't understand. Why do people who believe in God cry at funerals? Why is that? Or worse, you know that blood-curdling shriek of agony that a mother can make, you know, like when she sees her child die needlessly, right before her eyes.... Where does that scream come from? If she really believes in an afterlife, what's she so upset about? Isn't her little one in "far, far better place," I mean what's there to cry about?
PHIL
Wow, that's a hard-hearted thing to say, man.
KAYMUS
Is it? I think it's because the heart isn't hard, my friend. The heart knows better, knows what's really going on. The mind might be buying into this afterlife stuff, but that's way too cold for the heart. No, the heart rejects death. And religions, despite all their quote-unquote "respect-for-life" posturing, really embrace death, they make sense of it, they legitimize it. But no amount of their blow-hard windbag-edness can ever prevent that mother's scream, now can it?
PHIL
Hey, I'm not listening to anymore of this shit.
KAYMUS
Okay, okay, okay. I'll shut up. Say, you did fine on today's quiz. But tomorrow's questions may get a little harder, so study up.
Kaymus slides the book he had been reading over to Phil.

So friends, that is my Metaphysical Jeopardy joy ride for you today. I hope it was not too offensive. As mentioned, we all are going to fall somewhere along the religious spectrum. I just happen to be way out on one end. 

Frank Ganley

In the time of 1300 monks lived and toiled growing their own food and providing to the poor. DURING THIS TIME THEY WERE INSPRIRED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO MAKE BOOZE AND BEER. There were a lot of monks and  they were impressed themselves with the amount of food and of course free happy hour after working at whatever job you had in the abbey. Women observed the men and saw how self reliant they were, how much food they had and of course they didn"t have any Nuns makeing wine and spirit, so the Nuns tried to join the Abbey but were summarily turned down as the monks  feared, and rightly so. that the womwn would take over the abbey plus they only had one John and they were no obligated to provided a comfort station for anyone who was not a member. With all this infighting it was decided to be a priest you needed to be single . It was so the monk would not be distracted by these earthly temptations.

Now switching to the present time sort of, I was selected to be an alter boy in the 3rd grade which gave us plenty of time to practice and memorize the prayers I can still do a majority of the mass from memory, i digress. i served from 3rd grade1956 till college, being an altarboy for St.Tims and the Bishop. During all that time not one priest, i grew up in Philadelphia till i moved to Columbus in 1962. ever looked at me funny talked to me in anyway or ever touched me inappropiately or did anything that there is talk of today. I am looking for a lawyer that will take my case so i can sue the church for millions on the fact i was never hit on by a priest. I have ben so phsicalogically damaged over that fact that I am not cute enough to be made an instant millionaire. I joke of course! My question is though , why did they wait so long to report it?  They had no idea you could sue the church etc. The tears and shame I am sure was real but the others we'll let the Lord be the judge.  We in tampa had one case like this that was totally a lie. Hope this give you  an idea as to why a priest reains celebate. Next time the Gospel of how Golf was created on the 7th day . all proof lies in the bible.

Bonnie Jonas (Jonas-Boggioni)

As an addition to Jim's explanation, let me add when I worked with Seniors in Phoenix, we used to call them the "GO-GOs" (60-70) the "SLOW-GOs" (70-80) and the "NO-GOs)!

David Mitchell

Frank,

You forgot the cheese. For Pete's sake, don't forget they made cheese.

And Bread - - Like Julie Andrews said,  "Jam and Breeaad".  And sausages. And eggs - like from chickens. Kind of like "Old McDonald had a farm"  (but NOT like McDonalds - I mean they didn't have any drive-through windows - at least I don't think so - - "OK Sir, that'll be 4 Gilders, if you'll drive your team of oxen around to the first window")

But can you just imagine what Lent must have been like in those monasteries? No solid food, just beer or liquors - not even bread for 40 days?  BTW, I'm kind of partial to the "green" Chartruese myself, but it makes it so I can't drive at night. I bet a lot of great poetry was written in those Lenten "purple hazes". Too bad they didn't have any "amp" systems for their harps and lyres. Don't ya just hate when that happens! 

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BTW, There were many "Mother Abesses" who held the same stature and power as Bishops and Princes in the middle ages. If I am not mistaken, there were a few in France or Ireland who ruled over male monasteries. (and a good deal more who probably should have been)

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P.s. a point of clarification from my earlier "encyclical" (819). I attend an Anglican church, but I am not Anglican.   About 25 - 30 % of our congregation is Catholic. Or "catholic" as you may prefer.