The message forum is an ongoing dialogue between classmates. There are no items, topics, subtopics, etc.

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Message" button to add your entry to the forum.

Michael McLeod

Quite a blockbuster investigative story in the NY Times today about the drummed-up voter fraud story.

Here are the high points of the story as noted in the newspaper's summary of its investigation. I might provide some exerpts later on.

The specter of widespread voter fraud has been a cornerstone of President Trump’s efforts to dispute the Nov. 3 election should he lose. A New York Times Magazine investigation published on Wednesday has found that the idea, based on a flimsy set of sensationalist, misleading or outright false claims, was intentionally planted in the public discourse as part of a decades-long disinformation campaign by the Republican Party and outside actors.

Though the goals of the campaign complement and build on long-running disenfranchisement efforts aimed at Black and Latino voters, the investigation shows that the Trump administration has used the full force of the federal government, from the Department of Homeland Security to the Postal Service, to prop up limp claims of fraud as no White House has ever before.

The strategy was hatched soon after Mr. Trump won the 2016 election and has included the involvement of top officials, including the president and Vice President Mike Pence.

Despite the attention paid to it by administration officials and right-wing media, voter fraud is a largely nonexistent problem. Law enforcement investigations have repeatedly failed to find major wrongdoing in cases hyped for political gain, often based on sloppy data analysis.

To get the full scale of the disinformation efforts and the facts behind the claims, read the entire investigation here. It is based on a review of thousands of pages of court records and interviews with more than 100 key players.

But for those with limited time, here are the main takeaways.

Trump is taking an old strategy to new extremes.

Efforts to suppress the vote are nothing new. Politicians in the Reconstruction era tried to deny the vote to newly freed slaves; the passage of the Voting Rights Act in 1965 led to a raft of new efforts to restrict access to the polls; and throwing out ballots on claims of fraud may have delivered President George W. Bush his pivotal, razor-thin victory in Florida in 2000.

What’s different now is the extent to which the administration has focused on such claims, and the involvement of various arms of the government. Within weeks of his inauguration, Mr. Trump began setting up a commission to investigate voter fraud that was ultimately disbanded after a flurry of lawsuits. (Its duties were transferred to the Department of Homeland Security.)

At least four major agencies, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Postal Service, have been pulled into voter-fraud claims. In one case, the C.D.C. quietly altered its guidance about mail-in voting to make misleading claims about the safety of absentee ballots.

Its elections webpage no longer specifically mentioned mail-in voting as a safer alternative to in-person voting. The changes, which have not been previously reported, addressed mail ballots only in a brief section about possible dangers associated with them, suggesting that workers allow mail to sit for a few hours before handling it “to further reduce risk” and to carefully disinfect all machinery that comes into contact with it. Its final point: “Mail-in voting can make it more difficult for voters with disabilities to exercise their right to vote.” This was misleading. Mail voting is the primary means of voting for many people with disabilities.

Pence played a larger role than was previously known.

In 2016, the vice president touted a case that he has portrayed as a major voter-fraud scheme in his home state, Indiana. But the case involved registration applications that had been flagged by the group that submitted them, and most charges were dropped.

His office also played a large role in the defunct voter-fraud commission. Mr. Pence assigned two senior aides to the team, including his general counsel at the time, Mark Paoletta.

The commission included Matthew Dunlap, a Democrat who, as Maine’s secretary of state, bonded with Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state who effectively ran the operation. Mr. Dunlap said he was quickly sidelined after others began to consider him a “saboteur” when he questioned their tactics.

Dunlap came to see Kobach and his cohort as “voter-fraud vampire hunters” who treated any rare example of actual fraud, no matter how accidental or inconsequential, as proof of its ubiquity.

Most claims of fraud have fallen apart upon investigation.

Many claims about supposed fraud center on dead voters, double voters and noncitizen voters — the professed targets of efforts to remove a vast number of names from voter rolls. But the names selected for removal are often based on sloppy data analysis, and hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters have been wrongfully blocked in the efforts, despite scarce examples of such fraud actually happening.

Law enforcement has also played a crucial role in promoting the myth. Republicans have repeatedly pointed to investigations and indictments related to supposedly widespread voter fraud — but subsequent investigations have usually failed to find any such thing.

Still, Democrats are worried that Attorney General William P. Barr could focus on such accusations as legal justification for Mr. Trump’s calls to send federal law enforcement to polling stations on Election Day.

It is remarkable, but not at all accidental, that a narrative built from minor incidents, gross exaggeration and outright fabrication is now at the center of the effort to re-elect the president. As we approach an election in which the threat of voter fraud is being used as a justification for unprecedented legal and political interventions in our democratic process, it is important to understand what this claim actually represents: It is nothing short of a decades-long disinformation campaign — sloppy, cynical and brazen, but often quite effective — carried out by a consistent cast of characters with a consistent story line.

James Hamilton, M. D.

As for the debate, who won or lost is in the minds of those who watched them, not what they read in the papers or which network they watched after it was over.The left is always quoting left leaning publications, the right, right leaning ones. This Forum seems to have more quoting the former rather than the latter. I prefer to think on my own. 

​​​​Now, as for voter fraud, I find it interesting that those on the left in this country deny how much of a problem it is, and yet on another topic, racism, how systemically widespresd it is. Just today I talked on the phone with a woman from another state ( not Colorado, Ohio or New York) who had recently received 3 "mail in ballots" in the mail, each with her name printed on it in different forms. That had also happened to her husband. Literally, she could have voted three times. She and her spouse are retired from a profession whose union is strongly aligned with the Democratic party.

Just my thoughts...

Jim ​

Michael McLeod

I prefer to consult multiple sources, then do my thinking. That's the point I've been trying to make. Common sense helps, too. If this guy had legitimate grasp of the issues, he'd be talking about them instead of shouting insults. If he weren't behind in the polls hey wouldn't be ramping up the "I'm being cheated" myths. Speaking of myths, whatever happened to Obamagate?

"Of all the election misinformation this year, false and misleading information about voting by mail has been the most rampant, according to Zignal Labs, a media insights company.

Just how much bigger has it been? Of the 13.4 million mentions of voting by mail on social media; news on television, print and online; blogs and online forums between January and September, nearly a fourth — or 3.1 million mentions — have most likely been misinformation, Zignal Labs said.

That was 160 percent more than the 1.2 million mentions of misinformation on Bill and Hillary Clinton and their Clinton Foundation, the next biggest category, Zignal said. Other misinformation categories included George Soros, the billionaire investor and Democratic donor (915,300 mentions); misinformation about vaccines (628,700 mentions); and Kamala Harris “birtherism” claims (69,200 mentions).

The misleading information about voting by mail was not uniform. It broke down into six main categories, according to the analysis. In the month of September, they included:

• mentions of absentee voting or ballots, such as the false idea that it will be an unreliable way to vote: 410,918 mentions
• mentions of voter fraud, such as mentions of misleading stories about criminal conduct involving mail-in ballots: 345,040 mentions

• mentions of voter IDs, such as the baseless idea that in states with strict voter ID laws, mail-in ballots have been dumped out: 31,021 mentions
• mentions of foreign interference, such as inaccurately asserting that “foreign powers” are counterfeiting millions of votes: 11,857 mentions

• mentions of ballot “harvesting,” a loaded political term used by President Trump for ballot collection, a process that is legal in 26 states where someone other than a family member can drop off your absentee ballot for you: 10,562 mentions
• mentions of a “rigged election”: 10,140 mentions

Facebook, YouTube and Twitter have made combating false information about voting a priority, including highlighting accurate information on how to vote and how to register to vote. But the platforms have struggled to apply their election misinformation policies evenly, and many of the false posts are not removed unless the messages are explicit about causing imminent harm in the voting process."

D

John Jackson

Jim,  there is an ingenious (and extraordinarily simple) protocol universally used to keep people from sending in multiple ballots.  Once a ballot is received and the signature verified, the fact that the person in question has voted is recorded.  If another ballot is received with the same name, it’s obvious that the person has already voted.  How else do you keep people from mailing in ballots and then showing up to vote again in person on election day?  It’s not exactly rocket science.

And if voting fraud is so widespread, why are we only hearing about it this election?  Hasn’t it been going on for decades?  Why didn’t Trump talk about it in his 2016 campaign?  It only started to become an issue after he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. 

Could it be that Trump is seriously behind in the polls (have you seen the Fox News polls lately?) and he wants to cast doubt on the integrity of our elections?  Could this be why he has implied  he will not step down willingly because any election he loses has to have been fraudulent?

This whole voter fraud thing is a key component of the Russian disinformation campaign targeted at social media and far-right websites.  While Putin would love to see Trump re-elected, his primary goal is to destroy Americans’ faith in their democratic institutions.  The  Russians want democracy to die in the U.S. so we become just like them.  And circulating this Trumped-up voter fraud stuff plays right into their hands.

Michael McLeod

Actually, John, this is nothing new. It's been in the republican playbook for years.

From the Times five-month investigation. Let's hope history does not repeat.

On an October morning four years ago, eight young staff members at the Indiana Voter Registration Project in Indianapolis were planning their final steps before a closely contested presidential election. In recent weeks they had registered 45,000 new voters, most of whom were Black and Latino, and they were on track to enlist 10,000 more before Election Day. Their work had gone smoothly for the most part, but several canvassers had submitted applications with names that appeared to have been made up or drawn from the phone book, most likely to create the appearance that they were doing more work than they had actually done. That was illegal — submitting a false registration is a felony under Indiana law — and also frustrating. A made-up name was not going to help anyone vote. The staff members stopped using the suspect canvassers, but they couldn’t simply trash the faulty registrations: State law required them to file every application they collected, even if they had false names or serious mistakes. So they carefully identified all the applications with potentially false names, along with several hundred more with incorrect addresses or other simple errors, so that local election clerks would know they might present a problem.

Despite their efforts at transparency, though, Indiana’s secretary of state, Connie Lawson, used these faulty registrations as evidence of wrongdoing. She warned all the state’s county elections clerks that a group of “nefarious actors” who were going “by the name of the Indiana Voter Registration Project” had “forged voter registrations.” It was a gross exaggeration, but the project hired a lawyer to visit local election board offices and assure registrars that they were following the proper procedures. Craig Varoga, a longtime Democratic operative who runs Patriot Majority USA, which funded the Indiana project, told reporters that the fraud claims were false. Lawson was a close ally of Mike Pence, the state’s former governor who was then Donald Trump’s running mate. “We believe she is using government resources,” Varoga said, “to discredit and impugn the entire process.”

But the staff members did not expect anything like what came that October morning. Around 10:45, five unmarked state police cars and a mobile cybercrimes unit quietly approached their building. A staff member heard a knock on the back door. Within minutes, troopers were rounding up the staff members inside the office, announcing that they had a warrant to search all their computers, cellphones and records. When one staff member, a young Black man, refused to give up his phone, the troopers handcuffed him — for “acting like a hoodlum,” he later said in a sworn affidavit. Within a couple of hours, the police were heading out the door with computers and phones as a television news crew captured the scene.

Pence seized on the investigation in interviews. “Voter fraud, Dana, is real,” he told the CNN correspondent Dana Bash. “We’re dealing with it in the state of Indiana right now. We have literally thousands of instances of fraudulent voter registration.” This claim was a misrepresentation, but it was of a piece with similar claims circulating around the country. The Pennsylvania State Police raided a Democratic firm that it said was suspected of producing fraudulent registrations. Conservative activists released a report titled “Alien Invasion in Virginia,” claiming that more than a thousand “noncitizens” there were poised to vote illegally. A video from Project Veritas’s right-wing video ambush artist James O’Keefe III caught a Democratic operative seemingly discussing a hypothetical “huge, massive voter-fraud scheme” in Wisconsin, as Sean Hannity described it. Some of the claims were simply nonsensical. Roger Stone, Trump’s longtime adviser, tweeted a fictitious document that purported to reveal a Democratic plan to attack American voters with mind-controlling “pulsed ELF electromagnetic emissions” and impose martial law, adding only, “If this is real: OMG!!!”

None of these stories held up under examination: The Pennsylvania authorities never followed the raid with a case; there were no official findings of illegal voting by noncitizens in Virginia; a Wisconsin attorney general’s investigation failed to uncover a “massive voter-fraud scheme.” In Indiana, a judge dismissed charges against a manager at the Indiana Voter Registration Project, and prosecutors dropped the cases against nine of its former canvassers after they agreed to pay fines and confirm as true the charges against them. Two of the former canvassers did plead guilty to making false statements on government forms and received sentences of community service and probation.

But all those headlines about voter fraud — amplified daily on Facebook and Twitter — served a purpose: They laid the groundwork for a legal challenge. The Trump campaign had a team of election lawyers standing by to dispute election results throughout the country, and the Republican National Lawyers Association had readied a self-described “Navy SEAL-type” operation to fight similar cases. In the event of a Republican loss, they would need a story, and fraud was it. The truth appeared to be a secondary concern at best.

Victory did little to change their stance. Shortly after his inauguration, President Trump told a bipartisan group of senators that his narrow loss in New Hampshire was due to voter fraud. Thousands of out-of-state voters apparently voted illegally, he said, after they were bused in to New Hampshire from Massachusetts. After Trump’s rant was leaked to reporters, the ABC anchor George Stephanopoulos asked the senior presidential adviser Stephen Miller if he really believed that to be the case. The practice of busing in illegal, out-of-state voters was “widely known” in New Hampshire, he said. But he declined to provide evidence, adding that “voter fraud is something we’re going to be looking at very seriously.”

As the 2020 presidential election nears, it is becoming clear that the Trump administration and the Republican Party are not just looking at but heavily investing in the largely nonexistent problem of voter fraud. A New York Times Magazine investigation, based on a review of thousands of pages of court records and interviews with more than 100 key players — lawyers, activists and current and former government officials — found an extensive effort to gain partisan advantage by aggressively promoting the false claim that voter fraud is a pervasive problem. The effort takes its most prominent form in the president’s own public statements, which relentlessly promote the false notion that voter fraud is rampant.

This story did not originate with Trump. It has its roots in Reconstruction-era efforts to suppress the votes of newly freed slaves and came roaring back to life after the passage of the Voting Rights Act. But it is reaching an apex now, as a president who lost the popular vote in 2016 and is currently trailing in the polls harnesses the reality-warping powers of social media and the resources of at least four federal agencies to undermine faith in an election he could very well lose.

Voter fraud is an adaptable fiction, and the president has tailored it to the moment. Even as the coronavirus pandemic poses a grave obstacle to his re-election, the crisis is providing him an opportunity to do what no other president has done before him: use the full force of the federal government to attack the democratic process, suppress the votes of American citizens and spread grievance and suspicion among his followers. Recently, perhaps predictably, the president has begun to suggest that because of his professed distrust in the election process, he will not agree to a peaceful transition of power.

It is remarkable, but not at all accidental, that a narrative built from minor incidents, gross exaggeration and outright fabrication is now at the center of the effort to re-elect the president. As we approach an election in which the threat of voter fraud is being used as a justification for unprecedented legal and political interventions in our democratic process, it is important to understand what this claim actually represents: It is nothing short of a decades-long disinformation campaign — sloppy, cynical and brazen, but often quite effective — carried out by a consistent cast of characters with a consistent story line. Even the Indiana Voter Registration Project remains in play. “In my own state of Indiana in 2012,” Pence said on Fox News in July, “literally, there was a group of people that were prosecuted for falsifying ballots.” He had the year wrong and the facts wrong. But the Indiana case was nevertheless proof, he said, that “the reality of voter fraud is undeniable.”

The modern era of voter-fraud claims began on a November morning in 2000, inside a drab office building in downtown Miami — home of the Miami-Dade County election supervisor. Al Gore was contesting the results of the Florida presidential vote count, which showed a very small margin in favor of George W. Bush. Up against a court-imposed deadline, the Miami-Dade canvassing board voted to recount 10,750 ballots that had been rejected by its electronic machines, letting the 643,250 others stand, a decision that, at the time, seemed as though it could tip the vote to Gore.

With a Republican protest growing inside and around the building, the election board had moved its counting to a room on the 19th floor, away from the crowd. Stone, who helped guide Trump’s first, short-lived bid for the presidency during the 2000 primaries, has proudly promoted himself as an organizer of the demonstration, which involved several young white male rising stars of the conservative-operative ranks. The group stormed the counting room in a crashing human wave of clenched fists, pleated khakis and button-down shirt collars. Banging on doors and walls, they chanted, “Stop the fraud!”

The effort was obviously in bad faith — reporters called it the Blue Blazer Riot, the Bourgeois Riot and the Brooks Brothers Riot — but the board was sufficiently intimidated. It suspended the count less than a quarter of the way through, when it had shown a net gain of nearly 160 votes for Gore. It would never resume. If the rest of the ballots had broken the same way, Gore would have gained more votes than Bush’s final winning margin in Florida of 537. The success of the Brooks Brothers Riot confirmed that a fraud claim — even an unconvincing one — could help determine a chaotic, contested election.

Timothy Lavelle

Just thinking...The benefit of this forum to me is special to me. Since the reunion and with this method I have been able to hear from people privately that otherwise I would have lived out my life without hearing from again.

 To all of you, the answer is still "no". Stop asking.

Still thinking...Lastly, you don't think a political season could be more insane...I offer you a mini view. If the much fantasized Independent Party could have put a knowledgeable candidate up, the political scene would be more chaotic than anything we've seen. Just imagine...

We're good. We'll get through this.

Frank Ganley

Tim does that mean I'm out as far as talking , texting as I said no politics, or because I like the one you hate ! If I'm out let me know if I'm in say yes , I am hoping I'm still in. Rather disappointing to lose a friend over a difference of political opinion. Frank

David Mitchell

First of all, I am NOT a liberal. And I also prefer think for myself. And I beleive I do have a right to express an opinion.

I watched every moment (except for one quick dash to the refigerator) of the "debacle". I thought Trump's behavior during the debate was absolutely atrocious - childish - shamefully low and spiteful - like the spoiled child that he is. And so do some other Conservatives. At times he was utterly out of control.  One of the Republican commentaters immediately following the event said so also. Several GOP senators have expresed their shock that he doesn't have the gumption to condemn racist militant groups such as the "Proud Boys" - a dangerous and well-known group who beleive in white male supremacy. I hope you saw some of the articles the next day about how they cheered and celibrated his enocuraging comments "stand down". (I have kids in Portland and I have been hearing about them for several years now)

Doesn't any of that frighten you!

He never shut up, refused to follow the rules of the debate, interupted Biden over and over and over again, and told several lies. He lied about his taxes, lied about the Porltand chief of police, and lied when he said he "didn't know the Proud Boys".  (Well, I guess he does now.)

But I thought his worst comment was when he said "I don't know Beau." Only a sociopathic, childish, draft-dodging, coward would take such a chep shot at a man's patriotic, deceased son. How disgusting!

If he isn't the textbook example of a sociopath I would like to hear your own medical diagnosis of what is.

(I look forward to the next few years (in or out of office) as we watch his creditors call his hundreds of millions of dollars of loans. "Successful businesman - who's kidding who? More like master con-man.)

David Mitchell

p.s. You may have caught my spelling of the word "commentaters" in the post above, and thought it to be another of my many spelling errors.

Rather than correct it, I thought I would explain that it is a word - at least down here it is. 

"Commentaters" are "taters" that are in frequent supply and are "commenly" available to all who enjoy them.

Michael McLeod

Yeah the labels are interesting, Dave. 

The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase.

That's from TS Eliot.

I see things from the point of view of 40 years of teaching writing and as many years of writing for American newspapers and magazines.

If all that did was turn me into somebody who sees things through a single lense that you can describe with one word that sure was a waste of time and money. 

So I am changing my tune.

Maybe there is something to this voter fraud thing after all.

"Two right-wing political operatives were charged Thursday with a series of felonies in connection with a robocall scheme that Michigan’s attorney general said was part of a broad effort intended to intimidate minority voters from casting mail-in ballots.

The operatives, Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl, made automated calls to around 12,000 Michigan residents in August, warning them that their personal information from mail-in ballots could be used to execute outstanding arrest warrants or by credit card companies to collect unpaid debts, the authorities said.

Many of the residents who were targeted live in Detroit and other cities, said Dana Nessel, Michigan’s attorney general.

The calls — believed to be among 85,000 made nationally by the operatives — also claimed that mail-in voting information could be used by the government to track people for mandatory vaccination programs, the attorney general’s office said.

Both men have drawn attention for their efforts to smear opponents of President Trump.

“This effort specifically targeted minority voters in an attempt to deter them from voting in the November election,” Ms. Nessel said in a statement. “We’re all well aware of the frustrations caused by the millions of nuisance robocalls flooding our cellphones and landlines each day, but this particular message poses grave consequences for our democracy and the principles upon which it was built. Michigan voters are entitled to a full, free and fair election in November and my office will not hesitate to pursue those who jeopardize that.”

Mr. Burkman, 54, of Arlington, Va., and Mr. Wohl, 22, of Los Angeles, were each charged with intimidating voters, conspiracy to intimidate voters, using a computer to intimidate voters and conspiracy to use a computer to intimidate voters, according to a criminal complaint.

Mr. Burkman, who is well known for peddling right-wing conspiracy theories and who has tried to smear public figures that included the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III with fabricated sexual misconduct allegations, did not immediately respond to a request for comment."

Timothy Lavelle

I remember hoping for an interesting life...

Secret parties of Dems in closed room with no microphones or cameras doing the Snoopy Happy Dance while practicing their "Gee, this is sooo sad" face.

Repubs is closed door sessions trying to figure out the best ways to spin this most recent challenge, to keep their jobs.

While I don't believe the same way many of you do, I can't help but imagine the meeting in heaven where god decided to have some wicked fun..."First I call my Notorious Girl home to give the rednecks a little hope and sadden the socialists...then I wait while things cook...then I give Trump the corona virus to bum out the rednecks and hearten the commies...O My Me, wait'll you see what I throw in next"!

But, you know, I can also hear Big Sally from memory using those same words your own Mother used when you refused to listen and wound up getting hurt..."What did you expect". So, Donny, what did you expect?   

I continue to believe we should do what we can to enjoy the ride and stay sane. Assuming I'm sane...

Wash, mask up, vote. Throw the bum and his cohorts to the curb.   

Frank Ganley

I guess I got my answer fromMr LaVelle

John Jackson

There’s a lot of low-hanging “I told you so” fruit from the last 24 hours that I’ll ignore and instead focus on some real voter fraud (aka voter suppression)  which is far more widespread.  Greg Abbott, the Republican governor of Texas, has decreed that each county in Texas can have only one drop-off box for mail-in ballots.  This means, for example, that Harris County (which includes heavily-Democratic Houston with a population of more than 5 million and an area of 1600 square miles) has a single place to drop off ballots. 

I can only assume Gov. Abbot did this since Trump a few days ago was up only 2% in an average of half a dozen polls in bright red Texas.  Is  Abbot worried that Trump's weekend (or longer) sojourn at Walter Reed might cause some of Trump's mask-averse cult to start to re-think and tip the balance?

David Mitchell

Bob Gibson, Hall of Fame ace for Cardinals, dies at 84

I pitched in 8th grade - quite poorly I might add. Tom litzinger, Kevin ryan, and joe royce could attest to that - ALTHOUGH KENNY GRIMES - AHEM, FATHER GRIMES LIKED MY CURVE BALL - WHICH WORKED WELL ON the fifth tuesday after EVERY OTHER LUNAR ECLIPSE - sort of.

I loved pitching and I loved TO WATCH GOOD pitChers. two of my favorite players of all time were pitchers - sandy koufax of the dodgers, and bob gibson of the cardinals. Man were they fun to watch - faster than anything i ever saw. Bob gibson would simply blow it by the hitters. I used to WISH that i could throw as fast as he did. One year hIs e.r.a. WAS ONLY 1.12 PER GAME,,,,, FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON - RIDICULOUS!

He died tonight.

If I EVER get to heaven, maybe I'll get to SEE that fast ball again.

 

. SPORTS

by: The Associated Press

Posted: Oct 2, 2020 / 09:08 PM PDT / Updated: Oct 2, 2020 / 09:08 PM PDT

David Mitchell

ditto what John said just about the Governor of Texas. Begs the question - WHY?

Bonnie Jonas (Jonas-Boggioni)

Before the rest of the Forum land goes apoplectic over the mis-information that John is spreading, the "pick" up is for those who want to DELIVER - IN PERSON their ballots.  It is not being done for voter supression.  You can still drop your absentte ballot in any mail box/post office.

As for me, even though I did an absentee ballot in 2018 (three weeks after my Bone Marrow Transplant), I am going to go - in person - to vote early this year.

There arenot many times I risk myself like this, but there are sometimes when my rightous Irish goes off!  I can hear my Mother's voice in my head!

John Jackson

Bonnie is absolutely correct  but I never meant to suggest the single drop-off box per county was the only way to vote with mail-in ballots in Texas - I think it’s pretty obvious to most people that “mail-in ballots” (as I referred to them) can always be mailed.  

But after Trump's new Postmaster General's efforts to slow down postal deliveries, I'd prefer not to count on the Postal Service to deliver my ballot in time to be counted.  

And if Governor Abbott's policy is so innocent, what's the purpose in having only one box?

Michael McLeod

Here's the run-down on this Texas thing. 

You certainly can read it as being connected to the republican effort to supress. Whether that's out of calculation or paranoia depends upon your own intrpretation and pov. And it bear remember that this happens against the backdrop of the virus, and the reticence of everyone, particularly people our age, to go out and face crowds. Everyone should have every opportunity to vote and both parties ought to be making that as easy and safe - and, yes, free of manipulation of any sort - as possible. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Voting rights advocates have filed suit against Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, contending that his new order limiting mail-ballot drop-off locations to one per county burdens voters and “undermines the public’s confidence in the election itself.”

The complaint, filed late Thursday in federal court, seeks to block enforcement of an order Abbott (R) issued Thursday and to allow counties to offer multiple ballot drop-off locations ahead of a projected rise in mail voting during the general election.

The increase is expected despite state GOP officials’ success in maintaining strict eligibility limits on mail voting during the coronavirus pandemic. The state is one of only five that is prohibiting voters fearful of exposure to the virus from casting mail ballots this fall.

“The impact of this eleventh-hour decisions is momentous, targets Texas’ most vulnerable voters — older voters, and voters with disabilities — and results in wild variations in access to absentee voting drop-off locations depending on the county a voter resides in,” the lawsuit stated. “It also results in predictable disproportionate impacts on minority communities . . . already hit hardest by the COVID-19 crisis.”

It was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas by the nonprofit Campaign Legal Center on behalf of the Texas and national League of United Latin American Citizens groups, as well as the state chapter of the League of Women Voters and two individual voters.

The legal action came hours after Abbott issued his order, a move that Democrats and voting rights advocates decried, saying it was aimed at suppressing the vote and warning it could hurt populous cities that are Democratic strongholds.

Abbott said having a single drop-off location per county is necessary for “ballot security,” echoing unfounded claims by President Trump about the risks of voting by mail.

“The State of Texas has a duty to voters to maintain the integrity of our elections,” the governor said in a statement Thursday, adding, “These enhanced security protocols will ensure greater transparency and will help stop attempts at illegal voting.”

Texas governor’s limit on drop-off sites for mail-in ballots criticized as voter suppression

John Wittman, a spokesman for Abbott, declined to comment on why the governor considers multiple drop-off locations to be less secure. Experts say there is no evidence that mail voting will lead to widespread election fraud, as Trump as repeatedly asserted.

AD

In a statement, Wittman also asserted that Abbott “has not limited voting — instead he has expanded access to voting.” He argued that the governor’s executive order allowed voters to turn in their mail ballot anytime leading up to Election Day, claiming this was not previously allowed under Texas law.

Abbott’s order states that voters casting mail ballots can return them to a “single early voting clerk’s office location.” That meant election officials in several heavily populated Texas counties had to shutter existing drop-off locations that had been opened to make it easier for voters to cast mail ballots.

The order also allows poll watchers to observe the drop-off process.

The clerk of Harris County — the state’s most populous county, with more than 4.7 million residents — said the governor’s order “is confusing to voters and will serve to suppress Texas votes, plain and simple.”

AD

“Make no mistake, this is intentional,” Democrat Chris Hollins said at a news conference Friday. “This is being done to make it more difficult for you to vote. But I urge you — do not be discouraged. If every voter only takes away one thing from today, I want it to be that your vote is your voice in our democracy.”

Comprising 254 counties and more than 260,000 square miles of land, area-wise Texas is the largest of the Lower 48 states. More than 70 of its counties exceed 1,000 square miles; the largest, Brewster County, contains roughly 6,200 square miles.

Courts view GOP fraud claims skeptically as Democrats score key legal victories over mail voting

Anthony Gutierrez, executive director of Common Cause Texas, said in a statement that in Harris County, “reducing 11 drop off locations to only 1 severely limits voting access and forces people to choose between voting and their health.” The county, which includes Houston, comprises 1,777 square miles.

AD

He called Abbott’s order “blatant voter suppression and yet another way the politicians in charge are putting barriers between Texans and the ballot box.”

“With last-minute changes and pending litigation, it is increasingly clear that confusion in Texas elections is part of a pattern of voter suppression,” he said.

Under Texas law, only a limited number of voters can vote by mail this fall — those who are 65 or older, disabled, in jail or traveling outside their county of residence during early voting and on Election Day.

The suit filed Thursday is the latest development in a broader legal conflict between Republicans and voting rights advocates, who have partnered with Democrats in Texas and throughout the country in efforts to loosen restrictions on mail voting during the pandemic.

Other legal challenges to Abbott’s order may follow. Republicans for the Rule of Law, a group of anti-Trump conservatives, is also interested in joining the battle against the order, the group told The Washington Post on Thursday.

David Mitchell

as I asked before - Why?

What is the correleation between the number of "drop boxes" and "voter security"? I don't see any - other than to make it more or less difficult on voters. Is anyone suggesting that the burden (or cost) of more boxes is so great that they cannot afford them? Oh, maybe a bit of extra driving to collect them. I hardy think that argument justifies this odd decision. 

So maybe they compromise on the number of drop points - say, from eleven, down to five or six. But to go to one single box for a whole county seems to make their intentions so suspect that it naturally raises qustions. I mean, who would not be suspsicious of such a strange and shallow argument - espeially during this election?

---------- I got distracted and forgot my last question. If any mailbox is okay then why even have these special voter boxes? I'm asking that question sincerely - not rhetorically.

Michael McLeod

When Former NJ Governor Chris Christie, who helped Trump prepare for that debate debacle, has also tested positive, and after hearing the news Stephen King texted him: "You're a dipshit for not taking precautions, but I wish you well."

Michael McLeod

Mark:

Check this out if you haven't seen it already. Probably way too raw/racy/real for the more delicate souls among out classmates but a really fabulous project to my eyes. Reminded me of some of the characters I ran into during my days on the police beat.

Tangerine is a 2015 American comedy-drama film directed by Sean Baker, and written by Baker and Chris Bergoch, starring Kitana Kiki Rodriguez, Mya Taylor, and James Ransone. The story follows a transgender sex worker who discovers her boyfriend and pimp has been cheating on her. The film was shot with three iPhone 5S smartphones.^[4]

Tangerine premiered at the 2015 Sundance Film Festival on January 23, 2015. It had a limited release on July 10, 2015, through Magnolia Pictures.^[5] It received critical acclaim for its screenplay, direction, performances and portrayal of transgender individuals.

James Hamilton, M. D.

For those interested, I posted on the "General Discussion" of the "User Forum" a topic I called "A Tale of Two Viruses".

Jim

David Barbour

Thank you Mike, you are a hero defending sanity and honesty in our press which literaly protects

our nation against lying, cheating dirtbags like the orange dirtbag.

DB

Lawrence Foster

I found Jim Hamilton's post "A Tale of Two Viruses" over on the User Forum an interesting read. 

Below is a link to the "Select Subcommittee on the Coronovirus Crisis" released on October 2,  Yes, it is written by Republicans so don't start yelling right away that it is fake news.  

If interested you can look at the supporting documents in this report.  Some are listed as footnotes but there are also active links on pages 42-47 to scientific reports.  This is where the facts are and they are not slanted by main stream news media outlets.

Copy and paste this link into your browser for the pdf file of the report:

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSOCC-Report-10-2-20.pdf

Michael McLeod

Thanks for the link Larry. It makes the prez look good but actions speak louder than words. And thanks for the support, Dave. The demonization and unreasoned, whole-cloth dismissal of the country's journalists is a big part of the reason our country is so sick  - both literally and figuratively - right now.