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11/15/19 07:34 PM #6481    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

John,

Regarding "by the company we keep":

Thank you for reminding us that (Republican) politicians sometimes are associated with certain individuals who are not particularly saintly persons.

I probably missed it but I do not recall your writing a post here on the Forum about (Democratic) President Obama's connection to people like William Ayers, Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Rev. Louis Farrakahn.

Ooops! I broke my rule not to discuss politics anymore.

My bad.

Over and out,

Jim


11/15/19 08:01 PM #6482    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

Jim, I respect John Jackson and I have no respect for Donald Trump or his followers. So if you can convince me that this is wrong please let me know.

 

 

 


11/15/19 08:12 PM #6483    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

I would venture to say that there is not a person in the U.S. who follows the politics of the day who does not acknowledge that corruption is rampant throughout most of the government (both parties), the unelected government agencies, corporations that lobby the government for federal favors and even some NGO's. With a little digging one can learn the depth of corruption and deceit that has become particularly imbedded in the State department, the intelligence agencies, and the FBI.

It continues to be my opinion that what is driving the depravation of our government is the depravation of the current culture which no longer speaks of righteousness, courage, temperance, chastity, fidelity, humility and judiciousness.  The culture has all but abandoned a belief in one living and true God, Creator, and Lord of heaven and earth, infinite, all-knowing, omnipotent and incomprehensible.  As a society we will continue to spiral downwards until we humble ourselves to admit our individual and collective dependance on a higher power than ourselves.    


11/15/19 09:43 PM #6484    

 

Thomas McKeon

Mary Margaret you have hit it out of the park this country was made when Washington made his covenant with God and when he did we started to prevail in our quest for independence.  Right now we are facing a new time when we can survive or go down to defeat.  I must say i cannot believe that the best and most educated are not doing there homework regarding what is happening to this country.  We are being run by a group of unelected bureaucrats who believe they know what is best for this country.  I wish everyone could keep an open mind and listen to what some of the people on the conservative side have to say.  Listen and do not accept what is being said and check it out.  Glenn Beck has 3 documentaries on the Ukraine that are very interesting they are on utube.  Everything he points out has supported documents.  Please pray for our country even if you don't believe there is a supreme being. God bless the class of 66


11/15/19 10:10 PM #6485    

 

David Mitchell

I agree that we all see corruption in our political and social culture. Are we saying therefore that it should be acceptable?  What is done elsewhere, or in the past, or by other administrations makes it "okay" this time. I'm confused! 

Not one of you on this Forum could possibly miss the fact that I stand against much of what Liberal Democrats sand for; from their long history of generations of systemic and blatant "Jim Crow" racism through the South, to their appeasement of Communism, their initiation of the concept of deficit spending (once their own private bailiwick - but now kidnapped by Republicans), to their support for the legalised slaughter of our own offspring. So I would probably not be the first person you all might expect to buck the party line of those heroic, honorable, honest, and "pure" Republicans - those infallible, tried and true guardians of truth.

Or would I?

You see, I am feeling old again today. Really old!

I am so old I get confused at times - really confused. I need help understanding some of the things I see and hear. And there is so much these days to see and hear. Hard for an old guy like me to keep things clear in my muddled old brain.

Let me see if I can get this straight. On the one hand, we call a U.S. Army Lt. Colonel, "Scum". A man who's family fled Ukraine to esacpe Russian tyranny, and who served this country in actual combat in Iraq (as opposed to multiple draft "dererments"), where he was wounded and received a purple heart. We call him "Scum" - because he remembers a conversaton differently than the rest of the boys?  Maybe he's a double agent, or at least, just plain disloyal. Not many "disloyals" let themselves get near roadside bombs. A bit confusing if you ask me.

While a few days ago we recieved a "guest" into the White House, who is one of the most despotic leaders in the middle-east, one who jails journalists, harrasses some of his own ciizens in our country, and who had his troops execute two of our Kurdish "allies" (you remeber the term "allies" don't you?) journalists (and their wives and a child - shot in the head), and who threatened to cut off U.S. troops that we had on the ground that were in his way, and who had the nerve to stand in our White House and use it for a stage to deny his county's genocide of the Armenians "104 years ago". And finally, to have the balls to hand back the "tough guy letter". "Here you go Donald - in your face!"

And, we call him "our dear friend"?   

I am so confused. I must be getting really old.

p.s.

listening to recordings of today's hearings of a loyal (and very strrong) woman who was not intiimidated by a man who should have been convicted of covering up for a sexual predator (at OSU), was also very confusing!

And right after that, I walked into a theater and watched the new film, "Harriet". Talk about a strong woman - guided by her Faith!  

 

 


11/15/19 10:20 PM #6486    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mary Ann, 

Respect is a very individual and personal matter and I would never presume to be able to change that in you or anyone else. There are many people in politics and other areas for whom I have absolutely no respect - yes, most are progressive Democrats, but also some Republicans. I strive to be respectful to those with whom I disagree, but I am an imperfect person and probably at times fail. I also accept the fact that those whom I respect and support also are imperfect. Perhaps I just don't want to be the one to "cast the first [or any] stone".

Jim 

 

 

 

​​​​​​


11/16/19 12:08 AM #6487    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

 

Jim, I guess I fall into the category of those you have no respect for because I think progressively.  It really doesn't matter to me what you think because we do not  know each other well enough to judge one another.. 
We will see who wins on the side of good  or evil in 2020. 
 


11/16/19 12:25 AM #6488    

 

David Mitchell

Point of clarification:

1)  To avoid any doubt. I cannot imagine that Hunter Biden's role with the Ukrainian oligarks is anythng but corrupt.

But that is NOT the point of these hearings. An important aspect leading up to these circumstances, maybe - but NOT the main point of these hearings. Gloves off, and putting it bluntly, I am of the opinion that both sides are filthy as hell ! 

 

I believe this 41 year-old Ukraininan TV comedian is a potential hero in the fight against both his county's internal corruption, and Putin's agressive appetite. He won by a sweeping majority (almost 2/3rds) running as an anti-Russian, and anti-corruption candidate. But he needs our unwavering support - not a "let's make a deal" relationship. 

I just think that our leader's insulting and very public way of undermining his own loyal state department officials is childish and cowardly (and it apparantly goes on with ssome of our other ambassadors in other countries). And in this particular case, messing with the security of a critical alliance against the master villain of our age.  

Underlying all of this, it all seems all for one reason - "winning" re-election - not long term national security. 

p.s. no big fan of Adam Shiff, but getting really sick of Devin Nunes' childishly condescending attitude. 

 


11/16/19 12:27 AM #6489    

 

David Mitchell

Meanwhile Clare,

What's the lastest news from down at the casting ponds?


11/16/19 01:16 AM #6490    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mary Ann, 

I think you may have misinterpreted what I wrote above, or I did not express it well. In no way do I disrespect all who have progressive leanings (although I may disagree with their views). What I stated was that of those IN POLITICS for whom I have no respect, MOST are progressive Democrats but also some are Republicans.

Just for the record, that does not include anyone in our class.

Jim 


11/16/19 11:10 AM #6491    

 

John Maxwell

I to would like to welcome Sr. Gilmary to the forum. Hope you have fun.

11/16/19 11:17 AM #6492    

 

Michael Boulware

Our country is so divided!  Jim and Mary Ann are both wonderful people and classmates; they are also polarized politically. We can discuss things but need to set limits.

An example of this is the current impeachment hearings. I watch these and say to myself that our president is a conniving, lying, unfaithful, manipulating, insane cheat. My Republican friends see the proceedings as a witch hunt, with the Dems not coming up with any proof, and our president has the authority to do whatever he wants to do.    

I look at Barack Obama as the savior of our country; we were almost a bankrupt nation when he bacame our president. He pulled us out of a recession and served as an example to all of us how to be a good husband, father, and citizen. My conservative friends do not feel the same way.

I love Goose McKeon so I read Glenn Beck. That man(Glen Beck) makes me throw up but not as much as Rush Limbaugh does. Therefore I proclaim these limits: Discuss politics until you feel yourself getting sick, then stop.


11/16/19 11:17 AM #6493    

 

Michael McLeod

 

Nice to see respectful debate here at a very tough time for the nation and the world.

What I keep thinking about is the background of what is happening rather than the foreground, and how lucky and privileged we all were, given the beautiful haven and the time we grew up in. We were not born as Kurds, a people who have no country. Nor do we live in the the Ukraine, where if you speak out thugs soak you in an acid bath to melt your flesh away, slowly, so you suffer as much as possible before you die.

Our parents grew up in a country that stood up for people like them. It would be wonderful if we could get back to being that country again. There is a window for it. But from what I'm seeing it's a small one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


11/16/19 01:03 PM #6494    

 

Michael McLeod

And now, for the music lovers in our audience, a pleasant interlude to help you forget about your troubles via a youthful tribute to a time gone by of idealism and promise. 

 

https://boingboing.net/2019/10/30/fantastic-version-of-mr-tambo.html?fbclid=IwAR0EqAxtHVVGFr42WXYk_9pLaS5V6KNV3iav6wj4K_5XaudWlAwY9-8elHk


11/16/19 01:20 PM #6495    

 

David Mitchell

Well put Mike M.

Born white, male, in Clintonville with loving parents seems ions away from those who suffer. Our hardships were having to do our chores, or our homework. Later it got even more serious - we felt the pain and suffering of listening to Ohio State loose to Michigan, or having to miss an episode of "Rin Tin Tin", or "You Asked For It".  Horrors! 

 

I am often struck by the huge gap between our two extremes of political ideologies, and I seem to find myself caught somewhere in the middle on a lot of issues.

It seems to me that there are a lot of points of truth that fall somewhere in the middle - or at least, compromise that could be acheived - if we listened. But they get lost in these political pissing contests. We get defensive and tend to cling to the ideology, instead of working together towards effective solutions. It's often "party line" vs. reality - or power and money over fair and honest results. 

But the character of the individual still matters to me. Remember I am old - and as a result, old fashioned.

And it's often difficult to assess who the real person is behind the nice suits and ties - or business suits and heels. If you shout louder, or have a "movie star" persona, you may have a shot. But calmly addressing plain truth, plus $5, might get you a Starbucks - at best.

And there is so much financial "influence" clogging our system of government, so much socialism for the wealthy and corporate welfare in our utterly wacky tax codes. And sooo much lobby money flowing like an open sewer in the halls of government. (need we look any further than the Supreme Court's "Citizens United" decision? Wow!)

Wouldn't it be crazy to see a new party - the party of "Honesty, Decency, and Effective Compromise"? 

 

Excuse me but I have to go finish my Snow White movie on the Disney channel.   

p.s. Absolutely love Mr. Tamborine Man. Laugh, but I there is a version by John Denver when he was new with the "Chad Mitchell Trio" that i love.     


11/16/19 02:07 PM #6496    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

To all of my friends of the Class of "66 whom I know to be good people, who strive to know the truth, who seek peace and who sincerely desire to preserve our God-given rights, I would like to share something I read today in a column in the Catholic TImes;

The columnist, Fr. Ted Palcholczyk, was referring to a Q & A fhat followed a talk in which a parent questioned "what can the average person do to push back against the seemingly endless expansion of error and evil in our society?"  His respsone:

 We cannot yield to discouragement over the apparently widespread moral decline around us, nor dissipate our personal energy in worry and anxiety about the state of the world. Instead, we need to recognize how God has entrusted to each of us a small garden that he asks us to tend. If we tend that plot well, he will extend the reach of his grace in ways we cannot foresee or imagine, and we actually will contribute to stemming the tide of error and evil well beyond the limited confines of our particular plot.

This implies that each of us has different responsibilities, depending upon our particular state in life, our commitments, and our employment and family situations. By attending carefully to those responsibilities and conscientiously tending our gardens, the air around us indeed can begin to change.

In the words of St. Padre Pio, "Pray, hope and don't worry.  Worry is useless.  God is merciful and will hear your prayer."  I don't know about you all, but if St. Padre Pio, who bore the stigmata, gives this advice we "can take it to the bank".  

 


11/16/19 02:54 PM #6497    

 

John Jackson

Jim, I know it’s an article of faith on the right that Obama was close to the three people you mentioned, but of the three, it’s hard to make the case except for Jeremiah Wright.  And, once some of Wright’s earlier controversial statements came to light, Obama very forcefully distanced himself from those views.  But Wright’s only crime has been to be controversial, unlike the five Trump associates mentioned in the NYT article who, in just the past two years, have all been convicted of, or pled guilty to, multiple-count federal indictments.

There has always been, and there will always be, corruption (and on both sides).  But it wasn’t that common and you had to look in dark places to find it.  And it was roundly condemned and punished when it was brought to light.  

But Trump has taken things to a whole new level – now it’s out in the open - one of the arguments is “since we’re doing this openly, and admitting it, it can’t be corruption”.  We're hearing about stuff daily, and we’re getting accustomed to it as the new normal.  There’s a striking difference in degree, an erosion of norms that is completely, at least in our lifetimes, unprecedented.  


11/16/19 02:55 PM #6498    

 

David Mitchell

THINKING AHEAD:

Okay, so I was just going over the seating chart for our 55th reunion dinner.

I guess we should put all the Liberals on the "Left" side of the room, and all of the Conservatives on the "Right" side of the room. For those of us are too senile to remember which is which, we can hire boy scouts to escort us to our seats. But I am not sure where to put those of us who are completely clueless?  Maybe we could seat them (me) in a long row down the middle of the room as a sort of barrier - you know, kind of like a "wall". It woudl be a lot cheaper than barbed wire, don'cha think?

I think we should have music, but played softly so as to allow shouting political slogans back and forth. Or maybe we should just have a debate up front on a stage. And the rest of us get to sit there and shout out the questions. Now who would like to volunteer for the panel?  C,mon now - not everybody at once.

And here are a few songs I think would be appropriate for the evening:

Starting all over Again (is Gonna be Rough) - Hall and Oates

It's my Party (and I'll Cry if I Want to)  - Leslie Gore

Ring of Fire - Jonny Cash

Can't Get Used to Loosing You - Andy Williams 

You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers

War - Edwin Starr

And a "completely new" favorite - written by Jack Malik, a "new" songwriter fom that bastion of great British Pop/Rock music, Lowestoft, (in Sussex, of course). 



 

 


11/16/19 03:17 PM #6499    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Sr. Gilmary, I shall add my greetings and welcome to this Forum of the Class of '66!

As you have probably guessed, we discuss many different topics. Your homework assignment is to read the 6500+ posts that have been entered herein over the past few years and then decide if you can tolerate all of our musings and bickering and then restore order to our class 😱😁!

Jim ​​​​​​

 

​​​​​​


11/16/19 03:18 PM #6500    

 

David Mitchell

Golly, looks like everybody who is anybody was home today - and without the grandkids. Who knew?

 

Sister Gilmary,

Welcome.

But I have such a bad memory that I cannot remember you. (I keep trying to tell  everybody I am old.) And I did not take French. But if you are game enough to jump into this Forum you deserve a badge of courage. Or the official "patience of job" award. 

Okay class, everybody clean up your language (and look busy)

 

 


11/16/19 03:57 PM #6501    

 

Michael McLeod

Any Jack Kerouac fans out there?

I have a list of suspects in my head. 

Post something, anything, if you are among them.

I am curious - professionally curious - because I am writing a column about the inventor of the beat generation - the guy who, I believe, coined that elusive and overused adjective as applied to a rebellious post-war generation. 

Actually I am writing a story about a place where Kerouac lived for a while.

There is a home not far from where I am writing this now - a ten minute drive --  where he wrote "The Dharma Bums," which followed onthe heels of "On The Road," a story about bumming around the country with crazy friends which made him famous. It's an old Florida bungalow that has been turned into a writing retreat: writers can apply to stay there for free and write. They come from all over the world and spend three months on whatever project they have going at the moment. 

Weirdly enough, as long as I have lived in Orlando, I have never gotten around to writing about this place, which has been in operation for 20 years. They have asked me to write about it because they need money to fix the place up -- just basic, foundation work, nothing cosmetic, because its ramshackle appearance bespeaks the "beat generation" mentality and lifestyle and writing style that Keroac esposed. It's appropriate, for example, that the seat of a chair that he may have used while he was dreaming up stories has a hole in it. And you can easily visualize him holed up writing in the ranshackle back section of the house where he stayed - it's a low-ceilinged, rectangular add-on with a very low door, like almost Hobbit size, that opens up into a back yard that once had orange trees in it; he would sleep in that backyard some nights, or so the story goes.

There's a splendid Live Oak that hovers over the house - it's a primal touch. If you've ever been around live oaks you'll know what I mean. They are gnarled, ancient, druid-like -- I can imagine him drawing strength from it, coming up with some mystical metaphor, like the time when he was climbing a mountain with friends, one of whom expressed a fear of falling, and Keroac said: "You can't fall off a mountain." When somebody at the house ran that quote past me, I didn't get it at first. Then it came to me that he was saying don't be afraid. Many of the fears you have and the risks you think you see are of your own invention. 

Even without the live oak, though, the place is sacred. Sacred, at least, to the writer who stay here and say that they feel a palabable presence, knowing who occupied this space.

Writing this will be a bit difficult for me because he's never been a particular hero of mine, though I know what a cultish, powerful figure he was. A tragic one, alas: he was an alcoholic; he died in his early 40s. You can find interviews with him on facebook with Steve Allen - remember him? -- who played a piano as he interviewed him, and also - this one is much sadder -- with professional pompous ass William F. Buckley. Keroac's head is lolling and he is clearly on something as Buckley asks him if he thinks he influence the frightening and puzzling and bizarre youth subculture that had just emerged at the time - it's hilarious to see how seriously Buckley is as he asks him about - wait for it - HIPPIES! Oh my God what is this country coming to? It's just so weird to think back to a time when being a hippie was the craziest thing you could do and it made mom and pop apolectic.

From the very beginning, when Kerouac fans banded together to set the house as a cross between a sweatshop and a shrine, the irony of a literary landmark in a town better known as a theme park destination did not escape them. And I wondered, personally, if the Beat Generation is forgotten. But truth is that Keroac fans from all over the world -- not necessarily writers, but people who were inspired by the rebelliousness and spiritual or psuedo spiritual pursuit the beat generation espoused, turn up at the house just to look at it. 

Ok that's all for now. To be honest with you I wrote this on this space as a sneaky way of penetrating my usual writing block so I have been using you - I mean it's not like I'm using you as test dummies; it's actually just using a space where I can feel free to screw up. More like a dress rehearsal.  It eliminates or at least tamps down writers block, the psychology of which I will explain for you from five decades worth of experience with it: It's really hard to get past the fear that I'm going to say something stupid on the page, that I am not smart enough, that everything has to be perfect from the moment it emerges from my fingers. Ironically enough, I think that Kerouac, who did his best to hotwire his brain and write instinctively, without examining the ideas too closely before turning them loose, without having a beady-eyed gatekeeper watching every move he made - I think (haven't done enough research to say this conclusively) that he is perceived by critic to have adopted a writing style designed at least in part to win the war with writing block. The approach he took to make his writing spontaneous, to duplicate experience as it happens as accurately as possible, is what endeared him not only to those who admired his spirit but those who seek to emulate his technique, putting him in a seat not too far removed from hemingway in terms of influencing the style of American writers for generations.

 

 

 

 


11/16/19 08:05 PM #6502    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

John and Mike, regarding former President Obama....I wonder if you would defend the lie perpetrated by our former President and his administration immediately following the attack in Benghazi on Sept.11, 2012.  I am speaking of their insistence that the deadly attack was the direct result of a little known internet video? I will never forget watching as Obama and Clinton stood at the foot of the caskets of four dead Americans and repeated such an egregious lie to the grieving families and to all of America. Why would Obama and Clinton repeat such a lie?  A lie that was repeated for weeks on the world stage, despite the fact that the intelligence received by Clinton's State Dept. from the very beginning of the attack, had informed them that the attack was pre- planned and carried out by an al Qaeda affiliated group, not spontaneous and the direct result of a Youtube video?


11/17/19 08:41 AM #6503    

 

Mary Ann Nolan (Thomas)

Really Mary Margaret? Do you reall want  to get into a discussion of Obama vs. Trump? I and other women I know will be ready to debate this with you. Just name the time and place.


11/17/19 11:15 AM #6504    

 

John Jackson

MM, I’m sure this will not surprise you, but I never understood the hold that Benghazi had on the right.  The real tragedy was that four lives were lost.   And I find it hard to believe the State Department did not draw whatever security lessons were appropriate from this tragic event – after all, in the Obama administration, professional diplomats serving us in dangerous places overseas were respected and valued.  

So devoting three years of hearings to decide the exact sequence of events that precipitated the attack (hearings which finally led to … absolutely nothing) struck me as a “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” exercise.  And they didn’t bring the dead back to life.

You may feel that the administration and State Department made misleading statements about the reasons for the attack in the aftermath of Benghazi – I didn’t follow it like you did and, for all I know, you may well be right.  And if you want to call those statements lies, that’s your prerogative.  But, unlike our current president, Obama did not lie, day in and day out, about matters large and small, and force his people to do the same. 

In an attempt to convince you how strongly I feel that things are really different today and that my views about Trump are not just the normal back-and-forth partisan sniping, I’ll say that while I wasn’t a huge fan of W’s administration (surprise!), I can’t think of a single out-and-out lie that I would accuse him of telling.  Did he spin – of course (everyone does).   Did he jump to conclusions on WMD in Iraq - quite possibly.  But did he lie – I don’t think so.                                                

MM and anyone else should feel free to chime in, but I’m going to return to lurker status.


11/17/19 11:42 AM #6505    

 

Michael McLeod

We are the laughing stock of the world; a half dozen of our president's cronies are in jail or headed there soon; he's being impeached and in the process being exposed as a liar (as if we needed any further evidence on that score); our country under his watch has developed a habit of ignoring science, abandoning allies, favoring the wealthy, running roughshod over the environment, attacking women (in multiple ways) and separating children from their parents.

Seems if we want to start up a debate club or make sure everything's hunky dory in our own back yard we could cover that territory first.

 

 

 


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