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03/22/23 11:28 AM #12339    

 

Mark Schweickart

Mike -- I just finished reading this same article in NY Times, and decided to calm my spinning head by checking out less vertigo-inducing posts like those generally found here on our WHS Forum, when what greets me but this very same article again. I would be tempted to say in response to you something like "great minds are blown alike," except that I fear human minds in general will forever be unlikely to warrant an adjective like "great" any longer, given the AI competition that is unfolding. Yikes. 


03/22/23 12:01 PM #12340    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

I fear that the desire for, the need for and the usefulness of an education will be removed from the plans and goals of many young people. There will be a need for humans to input new data into these systems but I think that few individuals will be motivated to pursue such endeavors. 

Jim 

P. S. Think Zager and Evans

 

 


03/22/23 12:41 PM #12341    

 

David Mitchell

I forgot to mention one little added part fo the drama. Ohtani and Trout are otherwise teammates - on the Angels!

How ironic is that?

I dont think there has ever been a player like Ohtani - a home run power hitter and strikeout pitcher.




03/22/23 07:24 PM #12342    

 

David Mitchell

Mike,

 

Your article reminds me of two stories. 

One;   a program on the Sunday night "Disney Hour" about space travel to the moon - with a presentation by Werner Von Braun (who my dad had taken me to hear in a live presentaion at Mershon Auditorium at OSU down on High street.

I had to give a "talk" in front of the class and I chose to talk about that show. We had two nuns that year because they were both too old to teach a full day. It was Sister Mary (in the afternoon). She went into a rage and slammed her blackbord pointer stick so hard on the desk that it brroke in half. "This is nonsense!" she screamed. "they are filling your heads with utter nonsense!" "Imagine something as crazy as landing men on the moon?"

And the second idea was about Alexander Bell's warning about his new invention - the telephone - and how we needed to beware that it could be used for evil as well as good.

 

Even brother Elon (who I grow to dislike more and more) is calling out warnings about the potential for misuse of AI.

God help my grandkids!


03/22/23 10:17 PM #12343    

 

Michael McLeod

sing along time

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/hotter-than-taylor-swift-trump-won-and-you-know-it

 


03/23/23 03:40 PM #12344    

 

Michael McLeod

Dave: that moment in your talk summarizes the parameters of our grade school days quite nicely.

 


03/23/23 07:21 PM #12345    

 

David Mitchell

Mike,

I can't listen to your "Trump Won" video today because of my delicate heart condition. I have been on self administered medical watch all day since I woke up this morning to the news about Jim Jordan (yes, he of the loud, flapping gums, and the tiny testicles) has gone completely bonkers with his (presumed) power over a legal case in New York that he has absolutley no jurisdiction over - whatsoever!

Talk about "weaponization". God help us! 


03/23/23 09:07 PM #12346    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Vivek Ramaswamy


03/24/23 09:57 AM #12347    

 

Michael McLeod

Speaking of weaponization, Dave, we are busy down here in florida making sure gay people of all ages are ashamed of themselves. Back in the closet you go kiddos.

This woman is marvelous.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPOts38tdQY&ab_channel=MSNBC

 

My significant other, who teaches at a public montessori-oriented grade school, recently brought home several books out of her classroom collection, including this terrible, terrible publication, given the recent repressive, throwback edicts handed down by DeSantis re: black history and sex ed.

 

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/54557593

 

 

 

 

 


03/24/23 10:15 AM #12348    

 

John Maxwell

Interesting how the sweet sound of a the Black's soothe the savage. Only a few male singers have that quality. Thank you Mr. J. Nice ear candy.

03/24/23 10:21 AM #12349    

 

John Maxwell

Axel Springer

03/24/23 11:17 AM #12350    

 

Mark Schweickart

Jack -- Help me out here. I have no idea what these last two posts of yours mean, which makes me fear my old brain is losing it. Don't do that to me. Please decrypt. 


03/24/23 11:50 AM #12351    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Before I reply to Mike's post and at the risk of once again being considered by some on this forum as a rigid, brainwashed, uncompassionate, right-winger, permit me to explain that there is a Christian theology of the body that is at the core of what I seek to defend. I would also like to explain that I have not lived in a vacuum of the perils of this secular world, as I too have not been isolated from circumstances that have brought great challenges to my faith. Additionally, I have personally come to know of the heartache that has been brought upon so many who bought into the lie of the 60's "sexual revolution". Years ago, I was a volunteer on a 24 hour crisis pregnancy hotline twice a month, and for 20 years listened to the desperation, fear and anxiety of unplanned pregnant girls and women and learned how tempting it was to simply offer the one quick solution of an abortion. But I also heard from those who called in despair having regretted their decision to abort, realizing too late that other choices were available to them. Further, before deciding on the use of artifical contraception as a means of family planning in my own marriage, Crick and I did much research on the Catholic teaching of this issue, and after our research and after having studied the talks of St. Pope John Paul II on the Theology of the Body, we decided to become certified instructors for the Diocese in teaching the scientific natural methods for the next 18 years. Perhaps this is way more than anyone on this forum cares to know about my life, and I offer it only for context to my linked article, and as an explanation that I have not suddenly become a "right-wing nut" who is intolerant of others who choose differently from me. I happen to have been formed by my personal belief in the permanence of certain inalienable truths of the human person as created by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful, all loving Creator who destined us for eternal happiness with Him. Now that I have provided the background for this particular rebuttal to the previous post on this very sensitive and critical topic, I hope consideration will be given to the article linked below which is just one of the many, many others which argue the harm that is being done to children too young and way too emotionally immature to comprehend the devastating future consequeces of the transgender movement and they continue to pray that 5 years on puberty blockers will not have made her infertile or placed her at higher risk to develop cancer. 

P.S. I have a niece, who decided as she reached puberty and whose parents were in the midst of a devastating and bitter divorce,that she was uncomfortable with her changing body and who threatened sucicide and so her parents took her for counselling where it was agreed that she begin puberty blockers. She cut her hair, changed from her girly attire into male attire, changed her name and changed to a gender- affirming school. As she prepared to graduate high school and to attend college, she decided to stop transitioning altogether. My sister is ever so thankful that her parents never allowed her to undergo mutilating surgical procedures. 

thttps://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/inside-planned-parenthoods-gender


03/24/23 04:23 PM #12352    

 

Michael McLeod

Me: God, your majesty, can you tell me why you made so many girls inside boys and boys inside girls?

God: Why you all up in my bidness, punk-ass? 

Me: (shaking) My mistake. Sorry to have bothered you, ma'am.


03/24/23 05:44 PM #12353    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike I believe God has always been referred to as Abba which as you well know means Father. Referring to Him as "ma'am" does not prove any point.  

 


03/24/23 06:32 PM #12354    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike,

Over the line for some of us who believe.

Jim 

 


03/24/23 11:19 PM #12355    

 

Michael McLeod

Always seemed sexist to me, Jim. You're entitled to your faith but I can't imagine the God that you speak of and that you are certainly entitled to worship being a dude - or for that matter being a woman. Or for that matter being caucasian. C'mon. As incarnate, sure, assuming again that you're a believer. I'd think there are theologians out there who would agree.

God creates both male and female as persons “in his image” (Genesis 1:27). Sexuality is not a quality of the Creator but a result of creation itself.


03/24/23 11:49 PM #12356    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike,

I was not referring to the gender reference that you assigned to God, but rather the language you had God using - a bit crass.

Jim 


03/25/23 12:12 AM #12357    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

For a deeper delve into the "he"/"she" of God:  https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8279


03/25/23 09:28 AM #12358    

 

Michael McLeod

thanks mm. that is something I have long been curious about: how believers envision a non physical being as having a sexual orientation. I do think the essayist is being extremely patronizing by assuming the only people who would wonder about that would be "feminists." Numerous ancient religions, as you know, envision female gods, which seems much more logical if you are trying to personify the origins of creation, of life. Females are, literally, the bearers of that burden, that miracle.

I was certainly being irreverent but I'm still surprised Jim that you took umbrage. It's an old joke that god is a black woman and boy is she pissed. Hence I used an african american colloquialism - one that simply refers to somebody being a pest. It's an earthy expression more than a vulgar one. I meant to provoke thought not to provoke, period.

Ok actually that's not quite true. I meant to do both, but the former more than the latter. There is a question, a mystery, a reality at the core of this conversation: children do come into the world in bodies whose sexual apparatus does not match up with their hearts. Scientists do not know why. It stands to reason that we are all obliged to accept that mystery and be very, very compassionate and careful and embracing and even celebratory when it comes to that mystery and those individuals among us. 

That thought is truly what was at the heart of my little joke.

But then again, I'm woke.

 


03/25/23 10:26 AM #12359    

 

Mary Margaret Clark (Schultheis)

Mike....https://lifeteen.com/catholic-answers-sex-gender-variations-21st-century/

also, if you or anyone is interested in hearing a non-religious  & a purely psychological discussion around the subject of sex & gender, this video presents an interview with a trans-care specialist. These topics are much too deep to be isolated into a couple of paragraphs on a forum such as this one.

https://youtu.be/pCH-bUFR3WM

 


03/25/23 12:09 PM #12360    

 

John Jackson

The story of MM’s niece is one anecdote, but I have another anecdote to relate.  Over the years I have hired my own kids and the kids of my employees for part-time work helping with some of the simpler activities needed to assemble the optical instrument my business makes. About ten years ago, when she was a senior in high school, I hired the daughter of Mick, a machinist who works for me.  Megan did good work but she was extremely quiet and seemed really depressed – except for work-related talk it was pretty much impossible to engage with her.  After graduating from high school she continued working for me while attending the local community college and then a local college but she lasted only a few months in each before washing out.

Then one day about two years after she started, her father told me that Megan would not be able to work for a few months because she had decided to transition.  This utterly floored me because Mick is a huge gun enthusiast (the desktop on his computer is a photo of a Glock) and he listens to far right radio all day as he works (Rush Limbaugh/Clay Tavis/Buck Sexton, etc).  I studiously avoid any discussion of politics with him because a) I’m his boss and it would be inappropriate (not a fair fight);  and b) he is far and away my most valuable and indispensible employee.

It was extremely awkward for him, but to his eternal credit, Mick backed Megan’s transition and when Megan/Gavin returned to work I could see a huge change in his confidence, energy and engagement.  A few weeks later Mick confided that he couldn’t believe how good the change had been for Gavin.  Gavin stopped working for me a couple of years ago when he got a good job at Princeton after completing his bachelor’s degree in English at Rutgers and then a master’s degree in counseling.

Regarding Church teaching, I am constantly amazed that those who believe in an “all-merciful, all loving Creator” also believe the same Creator demands that some of his children be forced to live lives of misery and depression, and in this current political environment, hostility and discrimination from some of our would-be “leaders”.  Remember also that the immutable truths the Church teaches actually evolve and change a lot – for example, not too long ago we were told we would burn in hell if we ate meat on Friday.  Even better examples are the Church’s implicit acceptance of artificial contraception and divorce.

As MM’s anecdote points out, I can see that there is a legitimate concern in allowing kids to transition too early.  But I’m repulsed by the political weaponization of this very personal and sensitive issue by DeSantis and other demagogues on the right.

And what about the principle (which conservatives bray about non-stop) of allowing parents to choose what’s best for their kids?  If parents have the right to pull their kids out of sex ed classes, shouldn’t other parents be allowed to support their kids who are anguished/depressed/suicidal because the gender they are forced to identify with feels all wrong to them?

Am I the only one who sees hypocrisy here?                                               


03/25/23 12:10 PM #12361    

 

Michael McLeod

Thanks again, MM. 

And no, we're certainly not solving/understanding these issues in paragraphs or even scholarly volumes. That was pretty much my point, however irreverant it may have appeared. It remains, as I did say above in all sincerity and humility, a mystery -- one that science, and to my way of thinking religion, has yet to solve. 

And I, too, like you and John, have a little story of a particular child. I didn't want to be too heavy handed so I did not share it before, but I will now. Yes it's just a few paragraphs, but you gotta start somewhere. 

I was speaking to the mother of a grade school child, a girl who was exhibiting male tendencies. The girl found a way to visually express her interior life. She painted the palm of one hand red, the other blue. Then she approached her mother, holding out both hands.

"This is what I look like on the outside," she said, holding out one palm. "And this is how I feel on the inside," she said, holding out another.

As the mother told me that story, I knew she was the kind of mother who would listen to her child with compassion and understanding. And I remember thinking just how desperate a child would be for both of those things.

Really nice to delve into a substantial issue here. Have enjoyed it. What I like most of all that we have brought up individual stories. Individual children, each one different from the other, each one deserving of understanding and support.

And John, happy to see you weigh in, too.

My signficant other, who teaches in a public, Montessori-themed grade school, has a little library of her own in her classroom, as many teachers do. Desantis, as I guess you know, has pushed through legislation severely restricting how race issues and anything having to do with sexual identity can be approached in public schools. As part of that effort the state of florida is now cataloguing to a central data base listing every single book under the roof of every single public school so it can be checked out - and any teacher who provides a book that is deemed objectionable is subject to a third degree felony. My significant other simply brought home all the books she had in her classroom to avoid the red tape. Among them was a book called "My Shadow is Pink" about a little boy who isn't interested in the things most other boys are interested in. Scandalous! Lock her ass up!

 

 

 


03/25/23 12:28 PM #12362    

 

Jeanine Eilers (Decker)

As the grandparent of once Isabella/now Milo, I have given a great deal of thought to our sexual identity and the identity of our source.  I find your comments interesting.  Thank you for sharing them.


03/25/23 12:56 PM #12363    

 

Michael McLeod

Hi Jeanine! Hi, Milo!


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