Half-built walls and ruined mountains: Pictures and video show the remains of Trump&#39;s incomplete border wall

Dave M,

Thanks for that video. When we elect presidents they nominate cabinet heads who have a lot of power. I have said in the past that I would judge this president by the people with whom he surrounds himself, as I have my doubts about his abilities as a head of state.

You sound angry again.

I do not know for whom you actually voted but I suspect that some - perhaps many - may be experiencing "buyers' remorse", over the results of their election choice.

For those who cast their ballots in order to vote against a candidate as opposed to vote for a candidate may I suggest that, in future elections, to just leave that slot blank and just vote for the other offices and issues on the ticket.

Jim

03/18/21 10:13 PM

#9157

Dave and Jim, although Sasse is one of the few Republicans who has shown himself to be a vertebrate regarding Trump I think we need a little bit of the backstory here on what California actually did - perhaps a newspaper or other media account of the state’s actions.

From the exchange, it seems that California took issue with the Sisters not providing contraceptive health benefits to employees. If that is accurate, I haven’t the slightest sympathy with Sasse’s position. I totally get why people have reservations/revulsion about abortion, but the acceptability of contraception (by far the most effective way to avoid abortions) was decided by the vast majority of Americans fifty or more years ago no matter what the Church’s (or any other religion’s) official position is or was.

Janie, could we have another poll on how many members of the Class of ‘66 have engaged in some form of contraception?

The U.S. is not a theocracy and we profess to believe in the separation of Church and State. If that's the case, religious positions held by a tiny, tiny minority should not be enshrined in law or public policy. If your employer is obligated to provide contraception benefits (something that doesn’t bother most people in the least and that helps to contain overall health care costs) and you object, it’s very simple - don’t avail yourself of the coverage.

03/19/21 12:53 AM

#9158

John,

I don't think the issue here is so much contraception itself, but rather whether the government should have control over a religious organization's authority and demand that it go against the tenets and beliefs of their Church.

Providing insurance to an employee is a service benefit and an employee has the option to accept it, deny it, buy their own plan, or choose another employer. Should a Catholic hospital be forced to provide services which are against the beliefs of the Church such as euthanasia or abortion? This is the proverbial slippery slope. Will a doctor be mandated to perform surgery or supply hormonal therapy for someone who desires to change their gender if that physician feels it is against medical advice?

This has more than religious implications but freedom of religion is one of America's basics.

Jim

03/19/21 01:17 AM

#9159

Jim and John,

First to be clear, I have long believed that neither of the two men, recently departed (good ridance), and newly arrived, are worth a pinch of salt. One, the life-long immoral cheater, coward, and philanderer. The other, a spineless compromiser who doesn't have the courage to stand for what he claims is part of his own faith. (and whose promise of "bi-partisonship lasted all of about 4 minutes)

This is a case where the Federal Government had already offered the Little Sisters an exemption for religious reasons (a right guaranteed in a littlel paper called "The Constitution of the United States"). Tthis man Bacerra (then California AG) sued the Federal Government to block that decison, in violation of the Littel Sisters religious rights.

I agree that nobody can tell their employees they can't purchase contraceptives. They are free to do that. But to force the Nuns to pay for that is the argument. Just as I reject the notion that I must be taxed to pay for the slaughter of unborn babies, and filling thousands of plastic trash barrels full of tiny dead bodies - on religious grounds.

(Yes, talk about being deeply conflicted in these times of division. Nobody ever said life would be simple. And no, I do not agree with the antiquated and wasteful use of the fillibuster)

I consider Ben Sasse one of the few remaining people in Congress who possesses both the honesty and the balls to raise these questions. And I hope we don't stop hearing his voice any time soon - (though Nebraska Republicans may have other ideas)

-----------------

Another minor point. I leaned two elections ago that we here in South Carolina do not have the option of a write-in vote for President of the United States. I was dumbfounded to learn that at my polling place. So instead of penciling in John Kasich, I voted for the number 4 guy (name forgotten) of the Constitutional Party (no, not the recent election with the fraudulent Coal Mining owner - but 8 years ago - the Nashvile Attorney who was opposed to abortion, pro marijauna, and had established orphanages for the thousands of abandoned children in Romania).

03/19/21 11:31 AM

#9160

And we all thought English Majors were bad.

Engineering students really do get some silly ideas.

(I don't recall taking this class in Primary Fligth School)

03/19/21 11:40 AM

#9161

Jim and Dave, had the discussion in Congress been about abortion, and not about contraception, I wouldn’t have posted.

I’ve never been impressed by slippery slope arguments – if you oppose things (like the ready availability of contraception) that overwhelming majorities see the value of, you make it less likely that people will take you seriously on more serious issues. If you’re worried about the slippery slope, draw the line at an issue that matters.

And are you similarly troubled by the trampling of religious rights of some Mormons by laws that ban polygamy?

Many states have prosecuted Christian Scientist parents whose children died after the parents refused them life-saving medical treatment. Are these prosecutions also a violation of religious liberty?

Life is messy and for many rights there is often a conflicting right – it’s rarely black and white. Most important court cases are not about proclaiming unfettered rights but how to balance/prioritize conflicting rights. I would say there is no “one size fits all” principle of religious liberty that covers all these cases.

03/19/21 12:04 PM

#9162

John,

Just FYI the Mormon Church banned polygamy over one hundred years ago. Living out west I have known many Mormons, none of whom are polygamous, otherwise they would have been excommunicated.

Jim

03/19/21 12:16 PM

#9163

From time to time I’ve read about instances of polygamy in small pockets of the Mormon community. These are undoubtedly not mainline Mormons but spinoff sects (maybe they’ve even been excommunicated) but I suspect they claim some religious basis for their practice of polygamy. If there is any religious basis to their belief, shouldn’t this also be protected under some absolute “religious freedom” principle?

03/19/21 01:58 PM

#9164

John,

This whole discussion brings up an interesting topic for another discussion - what is a Church and what is a Religion? Here are my thoughts and opinions on this:

To me I think of a Church (with an upper case "C") as a Religion, like "I am a member of the Catholic Church". A church (lower case "c") ia a building or structure anything from a tent ("Brother Love's traveling salvation show") to a mega evangelical building.

A Church (Religion) has some kind of unity under a form of hierarchy that coordinates a set of beliefs, standards or laws/rules and places certain trained/ordained individuals in charge of churches under its jurisdiction. This would include Roman Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Mormon, Islam and others.

Evangelical Christians - and I suspect there are several among our classmates who are and may want to contribute to this discussion - often encompass individuals raised under a lot of different Christian Churches and Religious denominations.

This categorization, in my opinion, would be helpful in determining the role of "Church and State" issues. There are, of course, some issues with Islam that will fall outside of the norms of our American culture that involve killing and mutilation, which are human rights issues in addition to strictly legal ones.

Jim

03/19/21 03:39 PM

#9165

John Maxwell

Hey,
Does anyone care about the first round of hoops in college basketball. Or is that topic too passe for the real important concerns of today serious minded sophisticates, trying to confront the dreaded problems of the day plaguing our beloved country? These athletic contests seem to be reserved to the back seat of these foremost topics. Gosh I am beginning to lament the bygone eras of cornball jokes and goofiness that truly define the bumble of humanity. Careful we don't completely loose our grip. I'd state the the serenity prayer here, but I'm afraid it'd be wasted on this conclave. The only thing left to say is: bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb. Love is the only currency of the future. Don't worry, Yoko.

03/19/21 06:15 PM

#9166

Really Jim and Dave please tell me what you got out of the Trump administration? And Dave Mitchell give me an example of where Joe Biden has been spineless.? Look in the mirror I am sure you will be one ofthe first to cash your check.You misoniginst men have no clue. You are armchair critics.

03/19/21 06:53 PM

#9167

I have a question for the women of 66 ,why don't you speak up about these misonginist comments? Are you really ready to answer a questionnaire as to whether we ever took birth control. Is it any of their business?

03/19/21 07:25 PM

#9168

Mary Ann,

The question should not be what I as a person received from the Trump administration, but rather what America as a country and as a people received. I am sure you are familiar with the list even though you may not agree with it. That would include securing borders, energy independence, lower taxes, strengthening the military, helping to bring some measure of peace to the Mid East, bringing some jobs back to America and other things. But mostly, keeping promises he made before he was elected - something that I find rare among many politicians. One thing that really can affect us all individually on a very personal level is the unbelievable speed with which his administration was able to help science develop vaccines to fight this pandemic.

Those of us who have conservative values are often labeled by some of those who disagree with our political beliefs as being every type of "-ist" that has a negative connotation. Calling me a misogynist assumes that I despise women. Not true. I assume you are not a misandrist and I would never label you as such.

I am sure that you are happy that Joe Biden is now our president. I hope and pray that he will lead our country in the right direction but, I also must admit, that so far I disagree with the direction in which he is heading.

By the way, I do agree with you that a questionnaire on birth control is inappropriate for this Forum or any other such posting. It was not I who suggested it.

Tomorrow is the first day of spring and I hope the beauty of South Carolina can be enjoyed by you, your husband and all your guests, regardless of political leanings or this COVID-19 plague.

Jim

03/19/21 10:25 PM

#9169

Michael McLeod

Half-built walls and ruined mountains: Pictures and video show the remains of Trump's incomplete border wall

Mia Jankowicz

Feb 12, 2021, 5:01 AM

john darwin kurc — Part of an unfinished border wall in Guadalupe Canyon, in Arizona's Peloncillo Mountains, on January 20.

03/20/21 12:02 AM

#9170

Jim, your definition of Church (with a capital “C”) only proves my point. This is the 21st century and the vast majority of American churchgoers recognize the advantage of ready availability of contraception. On the other hand, significant numbers of Americans do not accept some or all of abortions. I’m not bothered that the Little Sisters are required to provide contraceptive benefits for their employees (many of whom are undoubtedly non-Catholics). If this action required the Sisters to cover abortions (which, judging from Sasse’s comments, was not the case) they should be given an out.

03/20/21 12:53 AM

#9171

Mary Ann,

You might have missed some of my comments on "the Donald" a few months back and over the last few years.

I got almost nothing out of Trump - before, during, or after his term of office. I could not stand the cheating, lying, philandering, cowardly, selfish bully before he was elected, while he sat in office, or since he has left. I will be among the cheering section as we watch to see the parade of lawsuits and foreclosures coming his way. I may even apply to get the popcorn concession.

As for Joe, I cannot fathom how he professes that his Carholic faith causes him to oppose abortion on demand, but then turn around and support that action in public office. Which is it Joe?

And yes, I voted for him (Joe), knowing he was not my preferred choice other than to help us rid ourselves of the toilet scum that had been collecting around the oval office over these past four years. I think he is a more reasonalbe man, but leans so far to the left on some issues that it troubles me. I wish we had better choices in both parties (like a Liz Cheney or a Ben Sasse - who might both be gone if the "Trumpers" have their way).

Like the man said, "you pays your money and you takes your choice". I didn't think I could afford the luxury of voting my real choice (somewhre down the ballot) this time around. My real thinking was siimply, whatever the cost, that jerk needed to be "fired".

And yes, I received a check - and yes,I cashed it. But though I am in terrible financial shape, I turned most of it over to help a woman in much worse shape than I am. And I got the rest of the guys in my office to pay our bosses rent for a month so we didn't have to close our business (I still need the job very much). One of my first concerns was a debt to an old buddy, and after that, a nearby Black grandmother whose family I have been asssiting (little by little - not huge sums) for almost as long as I have lived here. I only wish I could get my church to help her more than I can, her house is a hovel and her plumbing is falling off the wall in her bathrom. Ironically, I also cannot convince the local A.M.E. (Black) church (right behind her house) to step in and assist either - she is also "not a member" of their church. That restriction just drives me crazy!

Your use of the word Misogynistic puzzles me. I was raised to live my entire life with deep Christian respect for others of all kinds - men and women, children (born and unborn) the elderly, crippled, depressed, homeless, gay, Black, Orietnal, and any other category you might name. One of my fathers best lessons was his "more than two sides of the coin" lectures. He was always helping people who were in opposing causes or points of view from his beliefs. My father set an example of thee most charitable man I (or most people I know) have ever known, and I (and my two sisters) have tried to follow that role model. I only wish I had achieved Dad's resources to do more than I am presently able.

And speaking of Misogynism, If I recall correctly, Senator Joe Biden was the chairman of the Senate panel to question Justice Clarence Thomas when the going got dicey about his sexual beahvior toward one Anita Hill. Joe and the panel got caught in a sort of double whammy when Thomas accused them of a public "Lynching". So they backed off. Personally, I have never bought into the legitimatcy of Justice Thomas. (nor am I comfortable with Brett Kavanaugh).

Frankly, I thought they should have pursued the hell out of Ms. Hill's allegations. And there was, as I recall a second woman about to come public with similar stories about Thomas. Joe's committee never called her to testify.

If I am correct, Misogynism is defined as being strongly against women. I may be guilty of a lot of things, but can't imagine anything further from my set of values.

____________

Jim,

Though the Mormon church has become a much more maisnstream religion in recent generations, there are still pockets in Utah, Arizona and Texas (maybe more) who not only practice polygamy, but do it to a massive "cult" degree. And I know this may have long sicne changed, but I was at a boys camp in New Mexico where we travelled in trucks around the "Four Corners" country (Ariz. Utah, N.Mex. & Colorado) and we were refused water at a gas station in Ramah, New Mexico.

Reason? We were not a Mormon camp.

And I know it is long sicne past into history, but the mormons of a section of Utah were the perpetrators of the infamous (but little known) "Mountian Meadows Massacre" in 1857 of about 120 families (men, women, and children) who had come (I think) from West Virginia to start a settlement. The Mormons wiped out virtially all of them while pretending to "escort " them out of the valley.

And remember, it is harder to get a bookstore license in Utah, than it is to get a liquor license. The "Church" cannot stand the threat of educated people among their membership.

_______________

John,

I still think we are talking two different matters here, and Yes, it is a really fine line of distinction.

2 points;

1) It is one thing to ignore public safety with your religious beleifs, but there was no issue of widespread public safety with the "Little Sisters" issue.

2) The United States Government had already decided to grant the Little Sister's request. This California AG (Bacerra) sued the US Govermenet to reverse that, and force the Nuns to comply. I have no knowledge of anyone in California complaining about the proposed exemption for the nuns. If anyone knows otherwise I will stand corrected.

03/20/21 01:05 AM

#9172

Jack,

Oral Roberts who?

03/20/21 01:06 AM

#9173

John,

So, what you would recommend is that the Sisters should go against the Vatican and cover the contraceptive issue. That would probably be the end of their mission.

Perhaps what you are suggesting - and I do not mean to put words in your mouth - is that the Vatican should, because this is the 21st Century, change its views on contraception. And that is a possible valid argument. But to ask the Sisters, who are essentially employees of the Church, to disobey the Vatican is not a tenable solution.

Maybe you should write to Pope Francis or the appropriate Cardinals to see if a change in doctrine is possible. It would not be the first time in the 2000+ year history of the Church that changes have occurred.

Jim

03/20/21 08:39 AM

#9174

Jim, I would like to know how you define conservative values and your assumption that I and my husband are are not. You and others on this forum know nothing of my beliefs and values, I think you would be surprised how conservative we are in many ways., ie. fiscal morally ethically. In my opinion.I think you and Dave M are so quick to judge others and make assumptions that maybe you are taking some license.
My opinion on abortion is that if you are against abortion than don't have one and use your energies in a legal way. We have so many problems and issues to resolve that were left behind by the worst most corrupt scumbag in history.
And how about those pedoohile priests that have ruined young peoples lives? Oh and how about children in our own country who don't have enough to eat?

03/20/21 08:49 AM

#9175

John, I was shocked at your suggestion that we ask Janie to put out a survey asking how many of the women in our group engaged in birth control. What was that about?

03/20/21 10:05 AM

#9176

Mary Ann,

It appears that the post where you called Dave and me misogynists has been deleted. That was a very "quick to judge" me statement as I am not.

We are all complex individuals with value systems on many different levels - moral, fiscal, religious, etc. Political is just one of those areas but one that we often think of when we use the term. Even within politics there are many issues that can be agreed on by both the left and right leaning persons. Unfortunately, these seem to be somewhat rare, at least among those who are in control of making the laws.

I guess I also have trouble understanding why name calling has become so pervasive in political discussions these days.

Jim

03/20/21 11:33 AM

#9177

Michael McLeod

I'll sit this one out but FYI Jim, I can see her "misoginist" post - it's 9189.

I do think it's always useful for men who are discussing issues involving women's bodies and their control of them to remind ourselves that we are men discussing women's bodies and their control of them.

It's not so much an intellectual step as an emotional and empathetic one. That's as close as I can come to explaining it without investing the rest of my day trying to do so.

03/20/21 11:57 AM

#9178