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Apples to oranges, Jim.

It's one thing to brag about being Irish.

It's another to play the bully on the block to celebrate what was a humanistic triumph - a government for the people and by the people. And of course it rather adds to the dark irony that the guy in the middle of the show dodged the draft and mocked a hero who didn't. So you are right, it is, in part, because this president wanted it that many Americans -- many of them either serving now or having served in the military -- found the arrangement repugnant. But the larger point is that even if that weren't true -- even if Trump wasn't such a hypocrite -- the event was a core departure from the tradition that had evolved over the decades of celebrating, rather than chest-beating. When you are sure of yourself you don't have to play the bigshot, as dictators and third-world wannabes are wont to do. I think the wonderful columnist Irma Bombeck -- remember her? -- described the American way of celebrating a national birthday quite well in a quote that has been making the Facebook rounds these past few days:

You have to love a nation that celebrates its independence every July 4, not with a parade of guns, tanks, and soldiers who file by the White House in a show of strength and muscle, but with family picnics where kids throw Frisbees, the potato salad gets iffy, and the flies die from happiness. You may think you have overeaten, but it is patriotism.

Erma Bombeck

07/07/19 01:15 PM

#5676

Jim,

I'd say you nailed it with the phrase "Could it be - just COULD it be - that it is because it was THIS president who wanted to have it?".

True, we have had many military parades in our history - big ones in D.C. no less - and yes, with tanks (people seem to forget those). But the way he handled this one seems so blatantly political - so obviously his own device to stir up his "base". And the whole thing about "tanks" seemed to sort of rub it in. Fortunatley he had to back off with that idea for logistical reasons and settle for a few static placements around the capital area. But I think the emotional damage was done by then.

* And it's made all the more contrary by his own sorry record of "anti-service".

Finally, and most importantly, he comes dangerously close to politicising the military, and that alarms me.

(Note: And some of us who were opposed hardy qualify for the category of those who despise the military.)

------------------

This discussion makes me think I need to clarify a term I have used before - just now realizing I may have sent the wrong message to a few classmates. I have used the term "draft-dodger" and more than once. To me, draft dodger is a derogatory term, used to describe anyone who went out of his way to avoid the draft. I believe this applies to Donald Trump back in the day. But I should explain that I know classmates who did not want to serve, and who did not agree with our government, and used whatever - "student status" or "low lottery number" to refrain from serving. That is a different matter (in degress I suppose). And I have had several discusions with classmates on this site (some privately by email) about our choices back then.

I will address this to Mark, as he and I represent two different sides of this issue. Mark is a clear example of someone who just did not agree. But Mark is far from what I call a draft dodger, and I repsect his opinions on this matter. But to me there is a great difference when someone repeatedly used special influence or excuses, or even fled the country to avoid serving.

And I feel even more strongly about those maliciously "anti-war" demonstraters - who engaged in dispruption, property damgage, and threats and insults to returning soldiers from Viet Nam. That really hurt! And I heard a story of one of our own classmates who insulted another classmate at an earlier reuinion - using the "baby killer" term. I think that is disgusting.

-----------------

While I am on this subject, there is another strange category that I learned of while living in Vinh Long, that I grew to respect in a special way. I learned of the number of "pacifists" who served - even in some high risk, direct combat situations.

We had a radio operator (RTO) in our "Operations" hooch (the little nerve center of our Company's "operations") - a black kid from Brooklyn NY (with a wonderful Brooklyn accent - and great sense of humor), who was one of our best RTOs. HIs day was somewhat booring, but relativeluy safe. The "Operations" hooch was an heavy wood frame "office" with several desks and chairs, file cabinets, a large flight assigment schedule board, and the radio. It was built much stronger than our sleeping hooches and the outside walls an roof were lined with sandbags. In other words, he was pretty safe. But still..........

I had known him for a quite a while before he explained to me one night (while I was on "Operations duty" - a rotating job in adddition to flying) that he was a pacifist. He had refused to carry or use a gun but felt honor bound to serve in some way. I was amazed to know that these guys even existed. My opinion of him catapulted that night.

And some of youmay have heard this story - I wrote about it before. Some of the medics who flew on "Medivac" ships (Hueys with the big Red Cross on the sides - like flying ambulences) - sitting in the door gunner seats but (usually) without weapons, were pacifists. That still boggles my mind! If you could see what I saw on a few occasions where they performed rescues under fire, you would be awed (as I was) by their nerve and courage. One of their pilots once explained to a couple of us that several of their medics were pacifists. We were dumbfounded!

Somewhere in all my ramblings I think you get my feelings on the matter. A guy who once bragged "My battle with venereal disease was my own personal Vietnam" is not a man who commands my respect.

07/07/19 01:39 PM

#5677

And besides, without Mark I would never have learned the true meaning of the term "nutmeg".

this just in,,,,,,

Woo Hoo Ladys Worldcup!!

07/07/19 03:51 PM

#5678

Mary Clare Hummer (Bauer)

Mike,

I certainly remember Erma Bombeck (an Ohio native) who was to writing what Norman Rockwell was to art.

Americans do turn those long holiday weekends into times spent with families and friends doing the things she described plus others, such as going to baseball games. It is unfortunate that so many young adults today often, when interviewed, know so little about the history or the meanings of those holidays and the reasons that they are celebrated. Maybe they should go to a parade and be exposed to seeing some military hardware.

I guess if the American fighters with their muskets in the Revolutionary War had not succeeded there would be fewer holidays, perhaps no frisbees and no baseball, only cricket matches 🏏.

Jim

07/07/19 04:05 PM

#5679

07/08/19 10:02 AM

#5680

What is your favorite thing about being retired?

I'll start with the obvious one: I love waking up when my body rather than the alarm clock tells me it's ready to go.

(He said at 10:02 am while still in bed with his second cup of coffee).

07/08/19 11:21 AM

#5681

Mike,

Easy question, simple and true answer: spending time with my wife!

Jim

07/08/19 12:10 PM

#5682

Mark Schweickart

He will be missed.

Note: this image posted here is not quite right – it did not load properly as an animated gif. Instead of being just this image you see here, his left eye is supposed to slowly open and close, givng us a wink as he bids farewell. To get the full effect go to The Nation Magazine: https://www.thenation.com/article/mad-magazine-media-politics/

07/08/19 02:19 PM

#5683

That was one crazy magazine.

It spoke to me in the language that I understood.

Which is pretty much a testmonial to what a scrambled-egg brain I had back then. Apparently I was not alone.

07/08/19 03:32 PM

#5684

By the way, Jim, I gotta say your answer shocks me, because I was certain you would be devoting much of your retirement years to one of your many vices.

07/08/19 06:32 PM

#5685

Well, Mike, we do enjoy our evening martini or wine🍷 (never both) while watching the tube (Hannity 😁 and Hallmark movies 🎥). And, of course, there is that addiction to my camera
?. >r>
By the way, I will soon be putting on this website news of one of my photographic bucket list accomplishments which may be of interest to a journalist such as yourself. Stay tuned...

Jim

07/08/19 07:53 PM

#5686

Timothy Lavelle

A few posts ago, Dave made mention of draft dodgers.

For the longest time I thought that meant "people who only drink bottled beer". But I get confused easily...

It took the entire country to become disenchanted in order to extricate us from a war in VN that I believe we should never have been in; should never now glorify. Just my opinion. Accompanying that opinion is a belief that anyone who had nads enough to leave the country to keep from serving, or did anything else to put a stick in the gov't spokes should be voted our thanks.

But, just to make it somewhat confusing, I also believe that anyone who refused to serve should be barred from ever commanding troops in any way. Troops deserve to have a warrior to follow in the hopes of surviving.

Returning you to our previous programming...

07/08/19 11:05 PM

#5687

I don't suppose you could be referring to someone who had his rich dad buy his way out?

4 damn times!

07/09/19 12:30 AM

#5688

I was going to post something last week about a very serious topic, and then held off. I know we get enough of that and you area tired of hearing me rant about stuff.

But now I cannot keep quiet about this. I was inspired to post this tonight after some dialgoue with Bob Berkermer on his Facebook page earlier today - something we both argee on. And we both expect to see the story below get MUCH bigger in the coming weeks and months. And it should.

The story that just broke a day or two ago about the arrest of the well-known finanicer, Jeffrey Epstein, on charges of operating a sex traffic ring. The details of the story are utterly appaling and may connect to other very important people.

It gets incredibly twisted as one gets into the details of his prior sentence (in about 2004 or 06?) for the same crime - and the shocking, and partly illegal light sentence he received form then Florida U.S. Attorney Alex Acosa - now Presidnet Trump's Secretry of Labor.

This "Issue" hit the front pages in a big way a few months ago when New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft was caught up in "massage parlor" scandal - a trial that still goes on. And this follows a couple of articles from Portsmouth Ohio about a Lawyer who appears to have been running a drug, prostituiton, and sex trafficking ring - for years - with the help of a constantly drunk judge (also a recent news story filed by a couple of Columbus newpaper reporters). Meanwhile, almost buried under these headlines is an arrest a few days ago of three "Chrsitian" pastors in Toledo, charged with sex trafficking and abusing young girls in their church. (golly, haven't we heard a similar story somewhere before?)

I am sure we will hear more on this Epstein thing (some of the details of the first settlement in Florida years ago will give you chills. Tonight, a U.S. Attorney from Southern District of New York appeared on PBS news calling some of the terms of that earlier setlemet from Alex Acosta "clearly illegal" - hiding the names of the co-conspiritors from the victims! ) - but I am ahead of myself on the story that prompted me to open up about this in the first place.

A few weeks ago, a South African woman Medical Doctor (Dr.Tlaleng Mofokeng - and I believe she has now come under investigation) recently published an article saying that she thought becoming a "sex worker" (new world-wide code word for prostitute) was a valid carreer choice for young girls!!!!

But it gets worse. Unblieveably, Vogue Teen Magazine has published this article!!! Vogue Teen is no longer in hard copy, but is pulbished on-line, and has a circulation of a couple million readers - not all young girls. It is owned by Conde Nast, the popular travel magazine who recently had a staff member arrested for soliciting sex with minors, and during his deposition admitted an ongoing sexual relationshop with an 11 year-old! (Conde Nast also owns a numbe of other pubications such as Home & Garden, Architectural Digest, Bon Apetit, Brides, Glamour, Golf Digest, The New Yorker Vanity Fair, and Wired to name a few.

*** So I have something I would suggest you take a look at if you have a few moments. I have recently discovered a web site called "Exodus Cry". It is an organization in Missouri that is devoted to exposing, and campaigning against, Human Trafficking, Sex Trafficing, and Prostitution all over the world. The web site has almost too much infromation, but if you search around they cover some amazing stories from around the world on these subjects. They actually have groups who help young women escape the slavery of prostitution, give them safe shelter, and even help them find jobs. They are in contact with similar groups all over the globe working at the same task of exposing the trafficikng, and locating and assisting those who wish to escape.

They have run fascinating articles: one about the "Nordic Experiment" which has allowed Sweeden to reduce prositution by about 40 percent. They have gone into the "sex factories" of Thailand, where parents actually sell their 9 year-old daughrters into sex slavery - nine year olds! I was shocked to larn that Prostitution is legal in Israel, and that Tel Aviv is the number one sex slave trafficking city on earth! The stories go on and on if you can find your w ay around this complex web site.

One might consider this a worthy cause to contribute to if you are looking for something to "invest" a few dollars. google "EXODUS CRY"

And brace youselves for some real fireworks as this Epstein story unfolds.

07/09/19 01:16 AM

#5689

I stand corrected. I just went back on the Exodus Cry site and was reading back in their Blog. Israel has now banned the "purchse of sex". I didn't read any more details. There are far more serious articles on the site's Blog that caught my attention.

Caution: some of the articles are revolting. (A new "Porn" Univesrity in Columbia - not kididng)

----------------

Sorry - but I cannot keep this one quiet either. This just seems too important.

I stumbled onto another article you should be aware of - but are not going to like - at all.

Californian Senator and Democratic candidate Kamala Harris is sponsoring a bill in Californiato de-criminalize sex work. And her main supporter in this effort is one John Stagliano, which the blog reports is one of the porn industry's leading producers of violent torture sex videos. The bill will de-criminalize prostitition, pimping, and brothels. Some of the description of Stagliano's film work is quite sickening, and ties in with a new law in England that is also quite sickening - that killing a woman (or man) during sexual torture is not a capital offense - as long as the perpetrator can claim it was "consentual". There is already one such case in England where a famous guy got off. Imagine!

I thought Harris claimed to support "womens rights".

Why hasn't this come up in the "debates"?

07/09/19 11:19 AM

#5690

Jim:

If you watch Hannity on a regular basis I can bite my tongue and still be your friend.

But knowing that you watch Hallmark movies -- I'm going to have to get back to you on that.

07/09/19 11:30 AM

#5691

Mark Schweickart

Tim -- well said. I couldn't agree more.

Wow, Dave, that's sex trafficking post is bit much to wrap one's head around this morning, so on a lighter note, so if you don't mind, I think I will just go back to Mike's comment about what he most likes about being retired. Let me offer this clip from the CBS Sunday Morning show about a 97 year old guy who loves to bag groceries. Reminded me more of my Big Bear highschool days than my future, but who knows? I especially direct your attention to the point where the interview starts (around 50 seconds in) for one of the funniest moments I have experienced in awhile. You can just imagine this charming old guy sitting there with the camera crew buzzing around in the background, everything getting set for him to be interviewed, and then when the interviewer shouts his first question at him (was he hard of hearing?), the old guy responds with ... well, I won't ruin the line for you. And then later, when asked what he did after after his first job as a shoe shine boy at age seven, he says... again, no time for a spoiler. Anyway, I thought the whole piece was quite charming, and those two moments in particular to be quite unintentionally hilarious.

07/09/19 01:27 PM

#5692

Timothy Lavelle

Geez, Mark, Benny for president!

Late yesterday I made a discovery. It was about the time that I first heard that Trumpy the Worsty had a sitdown US government paid dinner with Krafty the Perv. Krafty the Very Rich Perv.

Q. to self: How can Jim, a doctor who has had to figure out more than one conundrum in his life, support Flubber the Trump? Assumption: Since Hammy the Doc cannot possibly admire a man so sleazy as Gee Don, he must have some ulterior motive.

A. Jim is gaming us. Backed into a philosophical corner, he has chosen the Alamo defense. Better known in chess as the "God, I haven't got a prayer but I will fall on my sword rather than admit a mistake," Jim just takes your words and answers with "Nya, nya, did not, did not, you can't prove that" to provide support to a man he knows us a buffoon.

Jim, Jim, Jim, all is forgiven. If some women can still make themselves believe that Bill Clinton was a proud bearer of the country's moral high ground as President, you can surely be forgiven for thinking Trump is something more than a stupid monied bully. Jim, I will read everything you say with a new-found glee as you continue your "O my god, what has the ass done this time" defense.

07/09/19 01:37 PM

#5693

John Maxwell

Dave,
Going to begin referring to you as Mr. Sunshine. So many happy memories.

07/09/19 03:07 PM

#5694

Mike,

In the old days I preferred Chuck Norris and Steven Segal action movies. But the action flicks of today are often computer generated with ad nauseum violence and contain more f-bombs than gerunds, adverbs and adjectives combined! Now that I am in MY older days, I find Hallmark movies relaxing and entertaining with great scenery from British Columbia. (I do, however, not care for the "girl falls in love with and marries a prince" themed ones.)

Tim,

We agree on something: Benny for president! After that, well, we both live west of the Mississippi River.

As I have stated on this Forum in the past, I support candidates who campaign on issues - and the sides of those issues - with which I agree and then keep their promises. That to me is the most important factor. Again I will make the medical comparison that I prefer a surgical procedure be done by a good surgeon with a bad bedside manner than a bad surgeon with a good bedside manner.

And when I fall on that sword I will be wearing body armor!

Jim

07/09/19 04:38 PM

#5695

Jack, and all,

Yes, I get it.

Although I much prefer to go the lighter side on this Forum, this topic has sort of overwhelmed me lately. And my reading of Bob B's post on FB yesterday morning really lit a fire under me. It's something I rarely do on this site but I just think the issue is so important that it needs whatever added attention we can give it. It's huge and it's flying completely beneath most of the public's radar. And I suspect this Epstein story is going to burn people on both sides of the political aisle. An older friend told me today at lunch that he has contacts in our state Attorney General's office that suspect that Trump and Clinton (and many others) are in this deeper than we may ever know. He also told me that this same source claims that "human trafficking" is teh number one crime in South Carolina - and nobody - I mean NOBODY seems to know it. Or care!

And lastly, I just thought the mention of the EXODUS CRY website was the most positive way that I could end my post. They are trying to bring bit of light into the darkness - to coin a phrase. They are doing good work and can use any support they can get.

-----------

My favorite thing about retirement is hoping I live long enough to experiene it - LOL

07/09/19 09:23 PM

#5696