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11/12/20 11:44 AM #8466    

 

Michael McLeod

Such a great loss to modern medicine that you didn't. Put us decades behind. But that's another great story so thanks. Thanks at multiple levels, if you know what I mean and I think that you do.


11/12/20 09:20 PM #8467    

 

David Mitchell

Sorry to belabor this, but it occurs to me to bring some clarification to a few terms I use in these stories - terms that I understand clearly, but forget that you may not. 

I have used the term getting "shot down". What does that really mean, and then what happens after?

 

In our operation, the Scout pilots (or Loach pilots - I use the terms interchangeably) were the ones who regularly got shot down. I know it may seem awfully repetitive, and I may even make it sound routune, but in fact it was. We got shot at about evey few days on average and I can recall almost every one of the ten or so times time I myself took hits in my ship.  But having one of our guys actually get "shot down" happened about once every two weeks in our company and likewize for our two sister companies (more often for "Apache Troop" for reasons I could not explain if I tried). In my 18 months in Vinh Long I think my Scout platoon - a group of 8 guys at a time, on a ongoing rotation over time ("old" guys leaving and new guys coming in) that spanned maybe 14 guys - I can recall about 24 or 26 "shoot-downs". One good buddy 5 times!  

That's not counting our two "sister" companies - one of whom had a similar track record, and the third - "Apache", a much worse total. And we each flew the same 10 or 12 different search regions on a rotating basis. Why Apache Troop had so many more problems - God only knows? Those two other Companies expereinced several fatalities from enemy fire. In my 18 months we had none! I consider that a miracle.

You would too if you had witnessed some of the bizarre situations we got ourselves into. And speaking of that, some of the things we did to cover or assist another's ship in trouble bordered on the ridculous!

(Note: as I have said before, we did have about 10 or 12 fatalities by horrible acccidents or mechanical failure - but not from "enemy fire", while in the air, and while flying the mission)  

Getting shot down happened becuse we were very low and close to them, often flying at very slow speeds,  or even coming to a "dead hover" an ingenious (read: idiotic) tactic that we used to get a better look - and often paid  a price for it. (I plead gulty, or arrogant, or stupid - you choose). We did this in order to get them to fire first. We were rarely permitted (special "free fire" zones excluded) to fire first. Not making that up.

I have shown you all photos of a Loach that simply crashed into the rice paddy and rolled itself into a broken pretzel. It so happens it was one of the safest cockpit structures to crash in. But hitting the ground from such low altitudes - 8 to 10 feet - sometimes 3 or 4 feet - and at relatively slow speeds, was the main reason more guys didn't get killed or even serioulsy injured from the impact. 

Here's a reminder I have shown before -  more below.

Now you may ask, What then?

You may recall there was a Huey (the  "C&C" - Command and Control)  flown by the Air Mission Commander ("AMC") at about 500 feet - well below the two Cobra Gunships cirlcing over head at 1,500 feet. When a Loach went down, the C&C would circle down - with close support from the two Cobras flying low and laying down lots of cover fire power, then hover close to the downed Loach, while the two Loach crewmen would simply run over and dive into the back floor of the Huey. The Huey would climb out and take the two men back to the staging area to get another team to come bck out and continue the mission. Or, if there were wounded, the C&C would suspend the mission while they flew the wounded man back to a large field EVAC hospital - often a  fair distance from the current area of activity.

It was often quick and clean but the tricky part was getting so close to the origianl source of fire as the pickup was made. And as I described yesterday, sometimes it was a chaotic hot mess.  

I have personally been on both sides of this "transaction" and I can assure you it's easier to be shot down (you had no choice) than to have to force yourself go down and get the guys who were just shot down. 

----------------------

* I have held off playing this video on here, but I think you will get a better idea from something visual. This is a You Tube episode from the History Channel about the "OH6a - Cayuse" (WE NEVER EVER referred to it by the name Cayuse). Some of the only film in existence of "Loaches" in this strange mission.Notice how low they are.

I will add a note or two; Most of the video is file footage from near the Hughes assembly plant in California, but you will see 4 very brief scenes of live action in Vietnam. You have to look fast - at the opening seconds, then at 1:53, then 2:03, and finally 2:23 on the video timer. You will see purple smoke in these 4 scenes (colored marker grenades we carried to be thrown out the door by our Observer while we screamed "receiving fire" - so we could direct the gunships to the source of fire). The really nerve wracking part followed as we weould have to go back in after and "assess" the damage. The Cobras almost never got them all in the first pass, so you can imagine the tension as we went back in again (and again, and sometimes - again).

And fianlly, the video drifts off into later conffigurations and uses (like Mogadishu) as it get past two and half nminutes.  We did not have mounted rocket pods and out-rigger seating (as in "Balckhawk Down")

Having just reviewed this for the first time in a while - I forgot how overly melodramatic the commentators are. Scusi !




11/12/20 09:22 PM #8468    

 

David Mitchell

I promise I'll get off this now. Besides, I beleive there may be new revelations in the Oyster Chronicles forthcoming.


11/13/20 11:02 AM #8469    

Timothy Lavelle

Jim,

I have read about interferons, autoantibodies and X chromosomes being areas of investigation primarily surrounding "why do two patients, seemingly very similar take totally different paths and outcomes" especially in younger men who have covid. It was good pretty science I think but not my field obviously.

Maybe you could inject...a few words. Is there a way of replacing, bolstering or some other way of helping these embattled interferons? And, are interferons like little heroes whose superpower is to interupt internal squabbles in the human body? You know, like after they interfere, they al go back to NYC and just be nasty and insulting to each other for awhile? Asking for a friend. 

Take your time. Report isn't due till tomorrow morning at coffeetime. Tim

 

 

  


11/13/20 01:53 PM #8470    

 

David Mitchell

#5 has left the building.

R.I.P. Paul Hornung. One of the all-time greats.


11/13/20 02:28 PM #8471    

 

Mark Schweickart

Dave – It is amazing that you were one of those death-defying Loach pilots, and crazier still that you and your other team members were shot down so often without being killed or captured. What a story! And although I cannot applaud the missions you were assigned to perform, I am so glad you came through it unscathed, at least physically (we all know you are as crazy as a bedbug).

Speaking of crazy bedbugs, our loser-in-chief who is refusing to concede, has generated a new "gate" scandal – according to Jimmy Kimmel we are now looking at "Squattergate." ( Sorry, I love a good pun.)

Despite this attempt at jocularity, I am actually feeling rather blue today. It is my Mother's birthday, and as with all of us at our age, we can't help mourn our parents' passing on day's like this. I know I have probably worn out my welcome posting my songs on this site, but I feel compelled to add another one today. I wrote this when she died back in 2004. She was always fond of poetry, even wrote quite a bit herself, much of which we only discovered after she died. I thought she would appreciate this rhyming remembrance, and sang it at her funeral. You will no doubt notice that I borrowed the melody from Billy Joel’s Piano Man. What can I say, that’s just the way it came out back then. I hope he doesn't mind.



 


11/13/20 03:42 PM #8472    

 

David Mitchell

Very sweet Mark.

My mother's name was Dorothy too.  

 

(and my mother-in-law's name was Dorith)


11/13/20 10:10 PM #8473    

 

Joseph D. McCarthy

Frank I have just one important question, and a minor related one, to ask of you.

What do you call the Golf Course hazard when you have to play through over 200 Canada Geese like I see every day walking (the geese, not me) on the 12th fairway behind my house?  

Minor follow up; Do you have to take into account the Geese when you tally up your score?

Just curious?

Joe

 


11/13/20 11:42 PM #8474    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Tim, 

I suspect you have been reading a report on a couple of articles that were recently published in the journal, Science, about why some people have different outcomes to COVID-19 than do others.

As I have posted on this Forum in the past SARS-COV-2 is a much different virus from others that have occurred in prior times. It has taught the world of microbiology, medicine and immunology so very much in a short period and has much more to reveal.

Interferons (IFN) are the first inflammatory cytokines to be deployed when a pathogen, often a virus, invades the body. They are the signaling proteins that activate other cytokines, antibodies and cellular immunity agents to attack and destroy the foreign invaders. IFNs can be the good guys, the bad guys and even the therapy guys. Some IFNs are now available as drugs to treat diseases such as certain leukemias, lymphomas and Hepatitis B. One has also been used for COVID-19 itself; more on that later.

Autoantibodies are well known in the pathogenesis of several diseases including Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, other rheumatologic illnesses and Type 1 Diabetes. Research has found that some individuals , predominantly men, have a genetic defect that allows them to produce antibodies - autoantibodies - to their own IFNs. That can impede the ability of IFN to trigger a bold immune response to the virus and lead to a worse, even fatal outcome. The gene that codes these autoantibodies resides on the X chromosome. Men have one X and women have two so why would women not outnumber men in death rates from this problem? Good question! No one knows but some theorize that the second X chromosome may have genes that protect or counteract the defective gene.

IFNs can also overreact to the invading pathogen and initiate the "cytokine storm" which can cause abnormal inflammatory damage to normal body tissues. That is frequently fatal. Interferon-Beta 1a is a useful medicine that is resistant to autoantibodies and which if given at the right time to a COVID-19 patient, often by inhalation, can help these people. However, if administered at the wrong time in the course of the disease,  can worsen it by inducing a cytokine storm.

Bottom line, these studies have added new information to our understanding of the immune system, the pathogenesis of COVID-19 and its disparity in individual victims. Perhaps there will be faster and better ways to screen patients early in the course of their disease for autoantibodies to IFNs and have a treatment that is already available. All of these therapeutic measures that are being tried will, hopefully, contine to decrease the mortality of this viral pandemic. 

Jim 


11/14/20 12:09 AM #8475    

 

Joseph D. McCarthy

Since it appears to be a silent weekend on the forum I thought what better time to talk about future return trips that I would like to take.

Among my favorite trips were those to two "Gardens".  First is the Bouchard Gardens on Victoria Island, British Columbia.  Located just off the coast of Seattle, Washington and Vancouver, British Columbia.  Bouchard Gardens were constructed in a used (no longer viable) quarry on Victoria Island.  As part of the trip we visited old Victoria, te capital of the Islad.  Next Garden is the Longwood Garden, over a thousand acres previously owned by the Duponts.  My wife and I took many trips during different seasons.  Christnas time was very picturesque as was the Fourth of July.

We also took many day trips to Northern, NJ to a place called Northpoint (I think) from atop the higheast poin in New Jersey you could seethe Delaware River and three states - New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.

Another of the trips we took, took us to Northern New York to the Saint Lawrence River.  Here we first took a little guided tour boat trip around some of the Thousnd Islands area.  Many of the islands are small and contain one home/family.  A house on one island in particular the guide informed us had SEVEN kitchens.  Mr. and Mrs. Kitchen, their four children, and the kitchen for cooking.  After departing we traveled across the River on I believe the Friendship Bridge into Canada.  Drove to Ottawa, Ontario for the night. Next day we drove up the highway North (two lanes) to North Bay were we stopped for the night.  The next day being Sunday, and Father's Day, we decided to take the paddlewheel boat trip around the small lake.  It is about twenty miles North to South and approximately seventy miles East to West.  Since it was Father's day my ticket was free, and due to the exchage rate my wifes was about $5.00.  A great cruise for a little over two hours.  The next day we drove to Cobalt, Ontario which starting in the earlt 1900's was a silver mining area.  They still do a little mining today, but through their heyday they mined more silver than anyplace else on the earth.

I'll continue later.

Joe


11/14/20 01:03 AM #8476    

 

David Mitchell

Oh no!

I hate to tell you this, but somebody has found another bucket of oysters. And the team of experts who were called in to break the "crustacean code" haven't even finished decifering all the shells in the first bucket.

Mind you, one of the questions on the minds of the officials seems to be whether the oysters must be eaten before the shells can be turned over to the Beaufort County Oyster Shell code breakers. 

Bluffton town officials are also trying to sort out whether to allow the later bucket to be placed in the hands of the code breakers anyway, or declare them illegal. Local oyster scholars are scambling to explain what constitutes a "legal oyster". There are "Early Oysters", "Mail-In Oysters" "Absentee Oysters", and "Fresh Caught Oysters".

Demonstrators insist that the only bucket that is legally allowed to be decifered is the bucket that was found before the date of the town's annual Oyster Festival, and they are threatening to go to court over their claim.  One local town councilman, Mr. Billy Bob Farquad, was overheard saying that he feared for the town's future. 

 

......he was seen wearing a M.A.F.A. cap (Make America Fish Again) 


11/14/20 01:16 AM #8477    

 

David Mitchell

Sorry, I complely forgot. There are also "Walk-in oysters".

And boy are they ever a strange sight!


11/14/20 10:16 AM #8478    

Timothy Lavelle

Jim,

You have an ability to make uncommon knowledge pretty approachable. Thanks for breezing thru the humor and telling us the inside info. It is again sad that women hog all the X's! 

I spoke with my aging sister back in big C a few days ago and she made the remark "hardly anyone is dying from it now" referring to Covid. She had been told to quit worrying by someone close. That thought process, and others like it may be technically right, but I fear the outcome of that type of thinking. She was so surprised to hear that over 1000 people a day are losing their future to this crap. The percentage of deaths may be down but 1% of one million -about ten days worth of new results- still equals the loss of 10,000 of our people who didn't need to die. 

On a lighter side, did you hear that historians are beginning to refer to it as the "dondemic"? 

Thanks. Tim

 

 


11/14/20 11:09 AM #8479    

 

Michael McLeod

Jim: a very basic question. Is our immune system a product of evolution? In other words have infections and viruses plagued our species from its very beginnings - and did the strong survive and pass down the biochemical predispositons to combat diseases?


11/14/20 11:38 AM #8480    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike, 

Definitely!

The immune system and everything in our body - and all forms of life - has evolved to allow us to function better. And it still is evolving today. Survival of the fittest is nature's way of propagating a species. But we humans are interfering with that process by our health care interventions. However, that is a good thing in my mind, and I suspect in most peoples' minds. I guess that is a function of the evolution of our brains and our ability to solve problems and correct some of nature's errors in a much shorter period of time. 

Jim 


11/14/20 01:46 PM #8481    

 

David Mitchell

It may be slowing down in Ohio (conflicitng opinions I guess), but the article in Today's USA Today about the Dakotas is pretty frrightening! After North Dakota allowed the big biker rally in Sturgis and then refused to cancel the State Fair, they are being overwhelmed with cases. They are so short staffed, health workers who test positive are themselves stiil being allowed to staff hospitals. They are at, or completely beyond staffing needs.

From what I have been able to gather, the death "rate" is down, partly because we have learned something about emergency treatment, and are saving more incoming patients, while at the same time, the case numbers still climb - thus a "lower rate" of deaths per case.

Am I reading that correctly? 


11/14/20 02:42 PM #8482    

 

James Hamilton, M. D.

Mike, 

An addendum to my last post regarding evolution:

Since viruses require entry into a host cell from which to steal the elements needed to reproduce, they could not have been the first forms of life on earth. I know of no fossil records of viruses to date like those we have of everthing from small cellular life to plants, dinosaurs and humanoid species. I suspect that parasites like viruses evolved quite early (geologically speaking) since they can even infect bacteria ("bacteriophage").

The mutation time of a virus, especially an RNA virus, is extremely short and combined with the huge numbers of viral offspring that are released from a single infected cell, mutations must occur almost constantly. For influenza viruses we are altering vaccine production for some of the strains yearly due to such mutations. Whether this will be needed with SARS-COV-2 is currently unknown. We do think that some persons who have had prior infections with other coronaviruses seem to be at least partially immune.

With viruses and other members of the microbial world, we are always at war.

 

Dave M., 

You are correct. The death rate from COVID-19 has been dropping due to much improved treatments becoming available. Those therapies have partially been based on a better understanding of how this virus interacts with our cells and our immune system. Also, just some lucky guesses with drugs used successfully for other viruses and diseases. Now we are discovering what sequellae some patients who survive the initial infection can develop. What we don't know is how long they will persist.

This is the "post war reconstruction" phase. 

Jim 


11/14/20 04:26 PM #8483    

 

Michael McLeod

Thanks Jim.

I was apparenly off by a few billion years or so in my assumptions, at least technically.

Lately I've been reading about hominids who interbred.

Must have been a great time to date around.

 

In a limestone cave nestled high above the Anuy River in Siberia, scientists have discovered the fossil of an extraordinary human hybrid.

The 90,000-year-old bone fragment came from a female whose mother was Neanderthal, according to an analysis of DNA discovered inside it. But her father was not: He belonged to another branch of ancient humanity known as the Denisovans.

Scientists have been recovering genomes from ancient human fossils for just over a decade. Now, with the discovery of a Neanderthal-Denisovan hybrid, the world as it was tens of thousands of years ago is coming into remarkable new focus: home to a marvelous range of human diversity.

In 2010, researchers working in the Siberian cave, called Denisova, announced they had found DNA from a scrap of bone representing an unknown group of humans. Subsequent discoveries in the cave confirmed that the Denisovans were a lineage distinct from modern humans.

 

Scientists can’t yet say what Denisovans looked like or how they behaved, but it’s clear they were separated from Neanderthals and modern humans by hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

Until now, scientists had indirect clues that Neanderthals, Denisovans and modern humans interbred, at least a few times. But the new study, published on Wednesday in the journal Nature, offers clear evidence.

“They managed to catch it in the act — it’s an amazing discovery,” said Sharon Browning, a statistical geneticist at the University of Washington who was not involved in the new study.

What makes the discovery all the more remarkable is that scientists didn’t have to look all that long to find a hybrid. Until today, scientists had discovered only four Denisovans; the fifth turned out to be a first-generation hybrid.

Hybrids may not have been all that uncommon. In 2015, researchers discovered that a modern human who lived in what is now Romania 40,000 years ago had a great-great-grandparent who was Neanderthal.


11/14/20 04:31 PM #8484    

 

Frank Ganley

Joe to my knowledge there is no name for a flock of geese to go thru, if walking beware they'are mean and bite. Now goose poop is another story. The rule say you must pick up anything up with your hand. Constantine Rocco had goose poop in his line on a green . He went to pick it up with a tee but the referee stopped and informed of the rule, he then tiold the official he could pick it up then. New rule


11/14/20 07:37 PM #8485    

 

David Mitchell

Mike,

At the risk making you jealous of me again, I think I once dated a "denisovan". She was a bit rough around the edges but she really liked to party. I think what finally caused us to break up was her propensity for snorting out loud.


11/14/20 08:50 PM #8486    

 

Michael McLeod

Shoulda stuck with Catholic girls Dave.


11/15/20 12:00 PM #8487    

 

Michael McLeod

And speaking of Catholicism: This made me laugh. It's from the New Yorker. It reminds me of a time when, as a child, I thought of protestants as bad people. I can't remember what we were told about them - I just remember it was a significant divide. Plus my dad, who was a Methodist, had to convert to Catholicism before my mother would marry him. And clearly Martin Luther was an excommunicated heretic and as such was burning in the fires of hell. I don't know about the hell part but he certainly did have a point about the hypocricy of the Catholic Church of his day -- though he turned a bit wackadoodle himself near the end of his life and said some fairly horrific things about Jews. 

Be that as it may, this is funny:

 

 

Martin Luther’s Ninety-five Theses, as E-mailed by Your Passive-Aggressive Co-Worker

By Patrick Crooks

 

FROM: Martin.Luther@vatican.org
TO: All Vatican Staff
Subject: A Quick Note

Not to be that guy, and most of this is totally not a big deal, but I just wanted to take a moment to communicate my disappointment with a few things I’ve noticed occurring at the Church lately. Unless everyone feels differently, I think there may be some stuff we could look into changing around here to make this space a bit better for everyone involved. Again, these are just a couple of thoughts I had, so no pressure at all.

Yours in Christ,

Marty


FROM: Martin.Luther@vatican.org
TO: All Vatican Staff
Subject: Plenary Indulgences

So the whole plenary-indulgence thing is something I’ve been meaning to bring up for a while, and if no one else has an issue with this, I’ll shut up about it, but is this really something we should be doing? Lord knows I’m not perfect, but doesn’t it sort of defeat the purpose of the whole forgiveness-of-sins deal? I mean, I’m no expert on the subject, but I thought the Scripture was pretty clear on this. Can someone back me up here?

Seriously, I don’t mean to be a dick about this, but we might look into changing our policy. I understand wanting to get the new St. Peter’s built, but have we considered having a bake sale? It concerns me that we’re maybe not serving the public by letting the wealthy buy their way into Heaven, but I don’t know.

Best,

Martin


FROM: Martin.Luther@vatican.org
TO: All Vatican Staff
Subject: Re: Plenary Indulgences

While I’m on the subject, maybe we should go over the whole forgiveness-of-sins thing? Last I checked, Jesus hasn’t returned, so I think that falls on us. I mean, God forbid we actually do our jobs, right? LOL JK.

But returning to the subject, repentance shouldn’t be an easy, empty apology. If that were the case, they’d let any schmuck into Heaven, and we’d all be out of work.

Thanks,

Martin


FROM: Martin.Luther@vatican.org
TO: All Vatican Staff
Subject: Good Works

Good works are nice and all, but maybe we’re a little too focussed on them? If I were to, say, kill a bunch of people and then give a few coins to the Church and clean up the mess, I’m sure it would be appreciated, but it doesn’t really change the fact that I killed a bunch of people.

While I’ve got you, we also need to talk about the whole charity thing. I’m looking it over, and it seems like no one is particularly concerned that the aristocracy isn’t giving to the poor. I mean, do we want the masses to view us as a corrupt institution interested solely in consolidating wealth and political power? If that’s what we’re about, let me know, but I’m pretty sure we’re supposed to be in the business of saving souls and helping the poor.

I’m not saying there’s going to be a schism or anything, but I’m not not saying that, either.

Regards,

Martin Luther


FROM: Martin.Luther@vatican.org
TO: All Vatican Staff
Subject: Following Up

Just circling back to suggest that you maybe take a few minutes to ask yourself if you’re a part of the problem? If the answer’s yes, let’s work together to make this a less corrupt Church. I just want us to want to be better, is all.

Sorry if I’m the asshole here.

Martin Luther

 


11/15/20 01:40 PM #8488    

 

David Mitchell

Mike,

Although this is not corraborated by any oyster shells, I believe there is also a letter fom Luther to Archbishop Albrecht of Mainz (and copied to Johann Tetzler) questioning the whole "selling of indulgence thing".  

"Jeeez 'Brechtie', what on earth are you guys trying to do to thes people? Your'e scarring the livin' Purgatory out of them!  Couldn't we try selling lottery tickets, or at least wait until they invent Bingo?" 


11/15/20 02:17 PM #8489    

 

Michael McLeod

Yeah Dave that would certainly be in character. But the one he tacked up on the church door in Wittenberg -- apparently 16th century Germans were already hip to publicity stunts - is the one that got him in hot water with da pope. And da pope, back in da day, was equivalent to Tony Soprano.


11/15/20 09:33 PM #8490    

 

Joseph D. McCarthy

In case there is someone who has never seen my world ( two doors East, two doors West, and across the street) famous (or is that infamous I can never tell) Thanksgiving Stuffing Recipe here it is.

 

                                        POP CORN STUFFING RECIPE       

 

            3 Cups          Bread Crumbs

            1 Pkg.           Onion Soup

            2 Cups          Un-Popped Pop Cprn

            1  Tsp.           Salt

            1/4  Tsp.        Pepper

            Two               Eggs (without the shells)

            1  Cup           Celery (Chopped)

            1 Cup            Milk (To Moisten)

 

Mix well.  Place stuffing in turkey cavity and pack tightly.

Bake at 350 degrees temperature for one (1) hour.

Then run like hell, because the stuffing is going to blow the #@$ off that bird.

 

Now if you decide not to utilize my famous (infamous) recipe, at least share it with friends so they can have a little laugh this holiday.

Joe

 

 


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